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Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

nytimes.com

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Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#191

Post by cutthegrass2 »

dataengineer56 wrote: post #76
yosito wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's hard to justify reading the book if I don't think I do want to stop smoking or drinking. I agree with you that the book might not be right for you if you don't want to stop. On the other hand, I didn't think I wanted to stop drinking, until I did want to stop, and then suddenly I wished I hadn't spent the last 10 years drinking. It ultimately didn't enhance my life at all. But I wouldn't have heard that messag…

That was my situation too - I wasn't drinking much and decided I'd do some reading to decide whether I should keep drinking intermittently or just ditch it entirely. Once I started reading then I couldn't believe I'd ever drank in the first place.

are you able to share any links to the info you read?

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#193

Post by dionidium »

steve_adams_86 wrote: post #189
dionidium wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to be a heavy drinker. Shame and guilt were absolutely enormous factors in my decision to quit drinking. I'm just n = 1, but it seems crazy to me to suggest that shame doesn't work. It works really, really well on me! If you want me to stop doing something, then getting me to feel ashamed about it is a very effective strategy.

For many other people it might only lead to reclusion and self loathing, which leads to more drinking, which leads to more shame, and so on.

I have no trouble believing that, but it feels like across a lot of domains it's currently popular to say things like, "these old ways of human interaction don't work, therefore they are bad in all cases and should be replaced with new ways" when the truth is closer to, "these old ways of human interaction don't work sometimes and we should be open to other modalities, but the old ways remain quite effective in many cases."

If I had to choose one word to describe the current era's discourse, it might be "over-correction."

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#194

Post by steve_adams_86 »

dazc wrote: post #152
atchoo wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm. How much experience do you have with alcoholics? To me this sounds very naive. I have seen various forms of well meaning enablement that follow this exact pattern. The drinker still buys drink for themselves on top of their "ration" while maintaining a facade of moderation for the one buying them drink. If someone is meeting them a couple of times a week, then they plan bigger binges around those visits. I have…

Well, I did point out that he isn't a full-blown alcoholic which is a big difference to the kind of issue you're alluding to. I did have the dis-pleasure of living with a proper alcoholic many years ago and she was exactly the type of person to have hidden stashes around the house. Alas, she was also the kind of drinker who needed to hit rock-bottom before she would even accept she had a problem and nothing I could d…

Something people don’t expect from alcoholics is that they become extremely effective at masking their issues. If they’re intelligent, they might even trick a lot of people around them into thinking they have a chronic illness or something - no one suspects a thing. In the way they speak and behave to hide their problem they show a sort of cunningness you don’t often see.

That’s not to say alcoholics are bad people. The need to drink is just an insane motivator for some. It makes it extremely hard to help them because it becomes nearly impossible to trust them, and that alone can be a massive strain on a relationship.

But I have no trouble believing a relationship would end with you looking “bad”; this sort of thing is part of hiding their problem and protecting their habit. You getting thrown under the bus is a strategy to draw attention away from evidence that her being an alcoholic was destructive to your relationship.

This is obvious to some people but has been a real revelation to me as I’ve gotten older and seen alcoholism around me more. It’s extremely insidious and difficult to navigate.

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#195

Post by rchaud »

duped wrote: post #175
elliekelly wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AA is a religious organization. Not everyone wants to be “saved”. Nor should they have to be in order to get treatment for alcoholism.

Not only is it religious, its not founded in any empiricism or medical study. Here's a decent article laying out the critiques, the opening paragraph is what everyone should keep in mind: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/03/the-surpr... > Say you’ve been diagnosed with a serious, life-altering illness or psychological condition. In lieu of medication, psychotherapy, or a combination thereof, your docto…

AFAIK, AA doesn't make you swear on the Bible or profess one's faith in Christ before you're allowed to join a meeting.

You can ignore the religious stuff and still make use of AA's highest-impact features:

- regular meetings, no appointment required

- being open and vulnerable in front of other people who understand the hell of addiction in ways your partner or family won't.

- having an accountability partners to call during moments of temptation, and having that reciprocal commitment is a far stronger deterrent to relapse than calling a crisis hotline offering scripted responses.

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#196

Post by Broken_Hippo »

giantg2 wrote: post #142
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lies. They don't exactly accept folks that are openly atheist and tell them their rules for life are crap. You have to act like the religion is correct, even if you don't believe it. A lot of them won't accept you if you are queer in any form. I'm bisexual, and refuse to act like half of me doesn't exist. Some of them won't accept you if you do not dress well enough, though I realize some are more lax. Some consider…

"A lot of them won't accept you..." There are tons of religions out there. You have to find one that works for you. Atheist? Join an atheist group. There are options.

Again, though, you are pressing religions. I've looked, and I'm not willing to change myself for a religion. Kinda by definition, atheist groups aren't religious groups.

I'm from Indiana: How many atheist groups do you think are in a town of 3,000? or 50,000? You know, in person spaces.

I'm no longer in Indiana, but I no longer share a native tongue with locals and religion isn't a big thing here. I'd just go and get actual medical care here and do hobbies I like. These aren't atheist groups, just non-religious.

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#197

Post by jolux »

hallway_monitor wrote: post #181
The-Bus wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The medical condition is a predilection to addiction, alcohol or otherwise. Shame doesn't cure cancer or make you recover from a common cold.

You don't have to think of addiction as a moral failing when you treat it as a behavioral problem. There's not necessarily a genetic or chemical cause or cure - in the end, addiction is a behavior.

That’s begging the question, because behaviors can absolutely have chemical causes.

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#198

Post by steve_adams_86 »

giantg2 wrote: post #78
tyingq wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment illustrates a large part of the problem. If society believes addiction is mostly a willpower problem, then effective services to help address it won't exist.

Isn't the first step admitting you have a problem and wanting to fix it? There's not much one can do without patient consent (which I don't think is mentioned here). Even then, the most the hospital can really do is counsel and recommend inpatient treatment at a specialized facility. I really hope the 'pushed out the doors comment was a slight exaggeration. They should have at least talked about the treatment options…

I do wonder if people would be more inclined to address and solve their problem if they felt people around them and society at large cared for them. Most alcoholics I’ve known have struggled with a sense of not mattering, not being cared for, of their problem being inconsequential because they don’t matter, etc. Telling people like that to recognize their problem and want to get better is almost pointless.

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#199

Post by duped »

rchaud wrote: post #195
duped wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only is it religious, its not founded in any empiricism or medical study. Here's a decent article laying out the critiques, the opening paragraph is what everyone should keep in mind: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/03/the-surpr... > Say you’ve been diagnosed with a serious, life-altering illness or psychological condition. In lieu of medication, psychotherapy, or a combination thereof, your docto…

AFAIK, AA doesn't make you swear on the Bible or profess one's faith in Christ before you're allowed to join a meeting. You can ignore the religious stuff and still make use of AA's highest-impact features: - regular meetings, no appointment required - being open and vulnerable in front of other people who understand the hell of addiction in ways your partner or family won't. - having an accountability partners to ca…

The alternative to AA isn't a crisis hotline, but medical treatment with empirical support for its effectiveness

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#200

Post by dotancohen »

clsec wrote: post #150
elliekelly wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AA is a religious organization. Not everyone wants to be “saved”. Nor should they have to be in order to get treatment for alcoholism.

IMO it's a cult. I spent a lot of my childhood at AA meetings with my alcoholic mother. I am also an alcoholic and struggled for years because the only answer I was ever offered was AA/NA. I tried it for myself a few times (usually to please others) but was always instantly turned off by it's cult like attributes. I eventually found help through a few different paths. disclaimer: my half-sister's mother was in a cult…

Share what helped, please.
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