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Teaching is a slow process of becoming everything you hate

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Re: Teaching is a slow process of becoming everything you hate

#191

I've often thought the same thing about becoming an adult, especially a parent, in general. There are so many choices that I harshly judged older people for making (how to allocate their time and money, where to live, what to allow or not allow the kids to do, how to behave at work, etc.) that I now find myself making as a married guy in my mid-30s with four kids. It makes me sad, but on each point I'm like, "Oh, now…

Yep. Your point of view as a parent is often very different than as a teen/20-ager. Different priorities. You’re suddenly aware of all of the things in society influencing your kids. You’re very aware when things your read online don’t match up with reality and especially with math. It’s just life experience. I don’t know many parents who look back at their younger years thinking, “I had it all figured out back then.…

Adults don't look at it and call it BS immediately, either. If anything kids are better at it. e.g. we all knew that the moral panic over violent video games was a bunch of BS.

Re: Teaching is a slow process of becoming everything you hate

#192
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If word gets out that you round 89 up to 90, then next you'll be dealing with all the people who got 88.5. Why would word get out if you just grade that way? No one would know you were rounding up... > As the article explains, cheating has negative effects on everyone else. Of course cheating can be good from the cheater's point of view – that's why people cheat! I think you've completely missed my point. Cheating…

>Why would word get out if you just grade that way? Students compare grades and talk to each other. It's also not uncommon for students to ask about your policy on rounding in the first class, when you're going through the syllabus. >Cheating had no negative impact - on anyone, at all. I'm afraid your cheating did have a negative impact on others, albeit a small one. For example, suppose that the class you took was g…

> Students compare grades and talk to each other.

That works for multiple choice. Given the ".5" I'm assuming partial credit is discretionary. So you can just discretionarily choose to give +.5.

> For example, suppose that the class you took was graded on a curve.

It wasn't. Also I'm pretty sure I still failed the test because cheating is hard, I couldn't really read much of what the person in front of me wrote.

> You'd be surprised.

I would be, yeah. My school took that very seriously.

> t's sadly rather easy to get away with cheating at university, even if you do get caught.

Yeah, my CS degree had a hilarious amount of cheating going on.

My point isn't "cheating good".

Re: Teaching is a slow process of becoming everything you hate

#193
Any visionary attempting to restructure traditional learning should read this, and I say that with no ounce of malice or sarcasm - its a nice hazard map, and it at least one constructive change that should be enacted:

1. Grades should be a continuum (percentage), not bins (A, B, C,..). "When you are forced to discretize into a small number of bins, injustice is inevitable." Report cards have no rational reason for not being an aggregate of numbers rather than low resolution numbers (letters).

The crux of the justification given for enacting these policies students hate is that students need motivation; their human nature, even given a clear end goal, is not enough for most of them to learn at the required pace without intermediate and forced goals. Of course this leads into the problem of carefully interpreting assignments to do as little work as possible, and lowering the quality of all student's experience to make assignments painfully clear.

All this leads so naturally back into the temptation to loosen standards of the class. If students are going to lazily and disingenuously complete assignments, they will not learn, and it should reflect on their exam grades - but making every student perform the same problems every time will waste half the students time if your assignments are catered to the slowest learners - the fastest learners will feel completely patronized and waste the most time. Don't punish your best students.

The real solution is breaking up classes. One class as a monolithic, multi-month, atomic unit causes problems. Each intermediate exam should serve to split the class into many smaller classes, which can be failed and retaken modularily. In fact, students should decide when they want to take that modular class's exam, and can stay in or attempt to test out at their discretion. Now all of the sudden the relationship between doing assignments and performing on these intermediary tests is tangible, and need not be forced through forced assignments and over-specified instructions. Students can still be required complete a final exam encapsulating all material from each modular class (longer re-test periods could be applied if need be), and if they performed poorly students would have the option to retake those modular sections to build up a more robust understanding.

This has other benefits as well: pre-requisites can be much smaller, and more specific pursuits of knowledge can have constructed an express course of just the strictly necessary modular courses from each full course. Students wanting complete understandings can always go back and pick up where they left off.

Re: Teaching is a slow process of becoming everything you hate

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Older people knowing better than younger people is one of those heuristics that's almost always right Up to mid 20's, yes. > stupid parents are rare Not even uncommon.

The mid-20s transition is the most obvious, I think simply because teenagers so often incredibly hot headed. But I believe emotional development continues throughout life as people acquire more experience with age (at least until senility kicks in.)

I think so too, but it's much more gradual, and therefore, not uncommon that the age vs age maturity level heuristic fails for a given pair of people.

Re: Teaching is a slow process of becoming everything you hate

#196

I've often thought the same thing about becoming an adult, especially a parent, in general. There are so many choices that I harshly judged older people for making (how to allocate their time and money, where to live, what to allow or not allow the kids to do, how to behave at work, etc.) that I now find myself making as a married guy in my mid-30s with four kids. It makes me sad, but on each point I'm like, "Oh, now…

On the other hand, this observation must be qualified as not necessarily generalizable to all teenagers and parents. Sometimes a person may grow up and realize that their parents were indeed quite lacking, and be right in that assessment. I think this other circumstance is important to at least mention because children of objectively lacking parents can have doubts in their mind about their own judgment. In part beca…

Those types of generalization have always been troublesome for me - While I admit I was an idiot as a kid, the respect I had for my parents has decreased even further the older I get. I understand more and more how harmful their behaviors were for me as a child, and have been intentional about not falling into the same behaviors with my kids.

Some parents are just really really inadequate or abusive as parents.

Re: Teaching is a slow process of becoming everything you hate

#197

I've often thought the same thing about becoming an adult, especially a parent, in general. There are so many choices that I harshly judged older people for making (how to allocate their time and money, where to live, what to allow or not allow the kids to do, how to behave at work, etc.) that I now find myself making as a married guy in my mid-30s with four kids. It makes me sad, but on each point I'm like, "Oh, now…

There's an author I read a lot who repeatedly makes a point in this writing: there are things in my writing you won't be able to understand before you get older, there is just no way. I have to say, it is so true. There are layers of layers I can only see when I get older. Remember when you are a teenage in high school and teachers explain subtle messages in the reading? You and all your classmates are like: this is…

> You and all your classmates are like: this is bs, totally made up by the teacher, even the author didn't think of those. Then after you get older and you may realize: those subtle messages are just so obvious

I think about this a lot. When consuming media, I constantly notice these kinds of messages. As you said: It’s almost impossible not to. But back in school, I was convinced that 95% was made up.

Re: Teaching is a slow process of becoming everything you hate

#198

I've often thought the same thing about becoming an adult, especially a parent, in general. There are so many choices that I harshly judged older people for making (how to allocate their time and money, where to live, what to allow or not allow the kids to do, how to behave at work, etc.) that I now find myself making as a married guy in my mid-30s with four kids. It makes me sad, but on each point I'm like, "Oh, now…

> I fear that this pattern could continue until I become my father in my 50s and 60s. I try not to judge people so much anymore.

I'm getting to the same age but I don't have kids yet. Still, I've grown to come to the same realisation as you did somewhere in my mid to late 20s (older people were, for the most part, right and I must have been an inssufferable twerp). I just thought it was something that came naturally to everybody with age.

Re: Teaching is a slow process of becoming everything you hate

#199
post #149

Unfortunately, even graduating students usually still have the life experience of a child and can't see the real purpose in education. Most are better off without a degree. Most who get a degree would be better off with an apprenticeship tailored to their field. Most of the rest would benefit from getting a few years of real life experience first. The reduction in attendance would lower costs and reduce degree inflat…

This. I would enroll, but nobody would help me financially like they were ready to do when I was younger. Also, let me customize the track a little bit. It's so focused on the inexperienced kids it hurts.

Re: Teaching is a slow process of becoming everything you hate

#200

I've often thought the same thing about becoming an adult, especially a parent, in general. There are so many choices that I harshly judged older people for making (how to allocate their time and money, where to live, what to allow or not allow the kids to do, how to behave at work, etc.) that I now find myself making as a married guy in my mid-30s with four kids. It makes me sad, but on each point I'm like, "Oh, now…

On the other hand (as a father of two) I find myself thinking about how my dad handled situations, comparing how I just handled it, and going, “wow did he have that backwards” haha. Not all the time of course and like you I have definitely come to appreciate how tough it is to make the “right” call, but we certainly have learned some things. One thing Boomer parents were really bad about - at least in my experience -…

I think the Boomer "Eat all the food on your plate" meme came from their parents, who lived through the Great Depression and food insecurity. Mindlessly passed down from a time of scarcity to a time of abundance. They just repeated it, but this time with gigantic, obesity-levels of food on their kids' plates.

We usually just ask our kid how much she wants to eat. It seems to work a lot better than the way my parents did it, with a lot less drama, and she's not growing up with an antagonistic and/or compulsive attitude towards food.

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