The campaign to shut down YouTube-dl continues • Hacker News Board

Re: The campaign to shut down YouTube-dl continues

#191

Post by foo_barrio » Mon, Mar 07, 2022, 2:57 PM UTC

gizmo686 wrote: post #50

md224 wrote: post #9

The interesting thing about this is that YouTube is clearly trying to make it more difficult for non-official clients to stream video, as is evident from the required workaround described here: https://github.com/ytdl-org/youtube-dl/issues/29326#issuecom... The legal defense of youtube-dl is premised on the idea that there's no circumvention occurring [0]. I 100% support youtube-dl and I want YouTube to stop interfer…

As I read that post, the circumvention applies only to a throttling control, not an overall access control. Since it should have been just as easy (if no easier) to simply block unofficial clients instead of throttling them, it seems like a clear argument that Google does not intend to block 3rd party Downloader, but merely give preferential treatment to first party ones. If you by that argument. Then bypassing the p…

The throttling is so severe it is effectively blocking. The throttling goes down to 50KiB/s on my PC trying to download a basic youtube video. That around 0.4mbps which puts you barely around the bandwidth needed to stream a very low quality 360p/480p video. For reference, this video is about 2 minutes long and that's how long it took me to download it via the last version of youtube-dl:

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVRInek075g

Re: The campaign to shut down YouTube-dl continues

#192

Post by sylware » Mon, Mar 07, 2022, 2:59 PM UTC

It seems many people are missing one of the most important points:

This is reverse engineering of obfuscated javascript for the sake of interoperability with software which are not google(blink|geeko)/apple(webkit) browsers.

The real problem is the other way around: streaming services not providing support for noscript/basic (x)html browsers (with the HTML element) should not be legal in the first place.

The only real technical issue is with seeking of streamed big videos: only HLS has a standard way to do that as far as I know (I may be wrong). Don't know for mpeg DASH. Because, a noscript/basic (x)html browser would pass the URI of a streamed big video to a media player and must know how to seek into it.

Re: The campaign to shut down YouTube-dl continues

#193

Post by grozzle » Mon, Mar 07, 2022, 2:59 PM UTC

paulcole wrote: post #175

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think maybe this was true five years ago, but at some point they decided to turn the screws and really ramp up advertising. I don’t follow their financials but I assume the site was self sufficient with far fewer ads than today, and that now they are extracting profit (rents) from their established behemoth. Of course I could be wrong.

You know you can pay YouTube like $10 a month and never see an ad again, right?

I can also pay YouTube $0 a month and never see an ad again.

I do pay money for Nebula, because they seem like their hearts are in the right place. I pay about $60, 70 a month to various podcast and video creators directly.

I don't use adblock, vanced, and sponsorblock because I'm cheap. It's because I don't like what YouTube as a whole is doing with incentivising clickbait and maximising revenue above just being an unobtrusive platform.

I whitelist Alec at Technology Connections, Steve Mould, a couple of others, from the ad blocks, because they aren't on Nebula yet. They should be.

Re: The campaign to shut down YouTube-dl continues

#194

Post by wintermutestwin » Mon, Mar 07, 2022, 2:59 PM UTC

BrianHenryIE wrote: post #60

I signed up for YouTube Premium because I wanted to watch some videos offline (on a flight). The download speed is awful. Now I use YouTube-dl when I want to watch videos offline. I still have Premium because ad-free is great!

We are already paying Google with our data.

Re: The campaign to shut down YouTube-dl continues

#195

Post by wintermutestwin » Mon, Mar 07, 2022, 3:06 PM UTC

paulcole wrote: post #175

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think maybe this was true five years ago, but at some point they decided to turn the screws and really ramp up advertising. I don’t follow their financials but I assume the site was self sufficient with far fewer ads than today, and that now they are extracting profit (rents) from their established behemoth. Of course I could be wrong.

You know you can pay YouTube like $10 a month and never see an ad again, right?

We are already paying with our data.

Re: The campaign to shut down YouTube-dl continues

#196

Post by mikem170 » Mon, Mar 07, 2022, 3:07 PM UTC

stuu99 wrote: post #73

bnjms wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anti-capitalism isn’t enough for you to sell as an alternative. We really don’t have a serviceable alternative ideology given the tendency for communism to fall under control of a few men same as capitalism. The Reddit subs can point out some of the problems with Capitalism but not alternatives. At some point the only option will be to use something like an rPi with a Linux and only interact with the culture made fro…

The real issue is company ownership is anti-democratic so we can't stop EA or activision from making games in fraudulent ways, so we'd need to have some ownership share over the company because it effects us politically. There's no other way then private power being co-owned with the rest of society, aka there are certain things private individuals and companies can't engage in. That is the only explanation because c…

Maybe part of the problem is that the limited liability companies enjoy is no longer descendant on them performing a public good [1].

I'd add that we also enshrined money as equivalent to speech, effectively allowing corporations and the rich to run much of our politics [2].

[1] https://ptolemy3.medium.com/but-corporations-are-private-com...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_united

Re: The campaign to shut down YouTube-dl continues

#197

Post by alamortsubite » Mon, Mar 07, 2022, 3:11 PM UTC

14 wrote: post #77

seanp2k2 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So long as the https://www.eff.org/issues/analog-hole exists, piracy cannot be stopped. The ever-escalating arms race between content and consumers will go on, but there will be no victory, only collateral damage. If you have content people value but they aren't willing to pay for it, find out why. Maybe it's because you're charging too much, running too many ads, making it hard to cancel, or they just don't actually…

You gave me an idea if someone was to design a small display attached to a camera paired specifically to capture high quality video not just someone propping up a camera but where external light was blocked and the image size and camera are perfectly matched with an audio input as well they may have a market.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog_hole

Re: The campaign to shut down YouTube-dl continues

#198

Post by thereddaikon » Mon, Mar 07, 2022, 3:11 PM UTC

bigfudge wrote: post #152

scarygliders wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The real issue is company ownership is anti-democratic Wrong. Company ownership is perfectly democratic. > need to have some ownership share over the company because it effects us politically This happens now with share ownership. > AKA bobby kotick can say to his employee's "make games with drm" and the employee's must obey or be fired, that is the fundamnetal problem with capitalism in a nutshell. Every single ti…

This is written from a position of ignorance on European companies. There are successful midpoints between US style capitalism and communism. In Germany, for example, company boards (for large firms) have worker representation: https://www.worker-participation.eu/National-Industrial-Rela... Heck - even functioning trade unions (not crippled as they are in the UK and US) provide a form of democratic check on individua…

What Marx calls socialism and what Western Europeans style as socialism aren't the same thing. Western European nations practice social democracy which developed before and independently of Marx.

When discussed without stupid names and branding, most people are open to discussing some of the ideas you are presenting. But the moment you call it socialism you are going to lose people, especially Americans. Because a lot of people have been murdered in the name of socialism.

Re: The campaign to shut down YouTube-dl continues

#199

Post by snarf21 » Mon, Mar 07, 2022, 3:14 PM UTC

lazzlazzlazz wrote: post #76

How can we create a video platform with high-quality discovery, personalization, subscriptions, comments, voting, and more — while also making it technically incapable of being evil and closed? Are there technologies that we can use to allow network effects to accumulate to software that isn't controlled by a single, rent-extracting, and private entity?

It is an unpopular opinion but we need to change the business model. Highly tax digital advertising so that subscription/patron business models have a chance and then we start to have more aligned incentives. Right now, digital advertising is too cheap and easy to exploit.

Re: The campaign to shut down YouTube-dl continues

#200

Post by TrapLord_Rhodo » Mon, Mar 07, 2022, 3:15 PM UTC

stuu99 wrote: post #42

md224 wrote: post #9

The interesting thing about this is that YouTube is clearly trying to make it more difficult for non-official clients to stream video, as is evident from the required workaround described here: https://github.com/ytdl-org/youtube-dl/issues/29326#issuecom... The legal defense of youtube-dl is premised on the idea that there's no circumvention occurring [0]. I 100% support youtube-dl and I want YouTube to stop interfer…

>I 100% support youtube-dl and I want YouTube to stop interfering with it Well if you've bought any client-server app over the last 23 years its a bit too late for computing freedom. They are locking down IO with trusted computing, there's been a 23+ year initiative to move to encrypted computing to take input/output control away from the user, this required the co-operation of hardware manufacturers. Windows 10 and…

Creator revolt is the only way it seems to force the issue. If everyone started using a open-source medium of storing data and simply extended that to the other platforms, it would take away their control of the medium with which it is presented.

Filecoin might be a good usecase here.