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Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

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Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#191

Post by shkkmo »

BeefWellington wrote: post #154
shkkmo wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem overly focused on the term "broadcast" while the text of the law seems to pretty explicitly include any means of distribution, including video hosting sites, video watching apps (including P2P?) And ISPs: > transmission or distribution by any means such as cable, satellite, IP-TV, internet service providers, internet video-sharing platforms or applications, whether new or pre-installed. Since this is a legal…

I specifically wasn't solely focused on that, in fact that's pretty clear from what you're responding to regarding ISPs and freedom of access. > transmission or distribution by any means such as cable, satellite, IP-TV, internet service providers, internet video-sharing platforms or applications, whether new or pre-installed. Since this is a legal obligation, I fail so see how EU protections against ISP censorship wo…

You didn't use the term "distribution" in your original comment and included phrases like "The internet is not broadcasting." that made it seem like you were portraying that as a critical distinction.

> However, it will not affect TOR any more than it would affect VPN providers, anyone offering VPS services, etc.

I agree it is almost certainly true that TOR and VPN usage won't be banned, if simply for practical reasons. It seems somewhat more likely that VPNs that are subject to EU jurisdiction will be requited to block RT as well given the language about "activities the object or effect of which is to circumvent prohibitions in this Regulation".

However, I am not very convinced that this won't including ISPs blocking access to RT and possibly sites that host RT videos. It's possible that this is just to force YouTube, et al, to block this content in the EU, but leaving RT itself easily accessible seems to defeat the goals of this legislation so I am a bit skeptical here.

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#192

Post by Tajnymag »

sudosysgen wrote: post #100
tgv wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do your research Ukranians are not nazis. There.

If we want to be charitable, they are not referring to Ukraine at large but to groups like Azov, Right Sector, C14, etc..., That are indeed Nazis and that have been armed and trained by Western forces in full understanding of who they were and enthusiastically.

Still not a reason to bombard Kyiv.

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#193

Post by marmarama »

The_rationalist wrote: post #77
MrDresden wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> War is a brutal thing, involving the deaths of thousands of young men. Just want to point out that most EU millitaries, along with the Ukranians and the US have women as well. So there is death all around, no matter the sex.

That is extremely misleading, men suffer from intense misandrism. Ukrainians men are forced to stay captive in their cities to fight while ukrainian women are allowed to save their lives and flee the city, because they own a vagina.

No, women are allowed to leave Ukraine because, for the most part, they are responsible for raising the next generation of Ukrainians. The number one long-term job of any society is ultimately to raise the next generation. If you don't do that, the society doesn't exist in one or two generations' time.

What you consider misandry is in fact a feminist issue. Women often don't choose a life of childcare; it's something that can be forced upon them, because if they don't do it, no-one else will. Men get to choose whether to get involved. If the share of childcare was more equal, then there wouldn't be a reason to restrict leaving the country on a gendered basis.

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#194

Post by The_rationalist »

marmarama wrote: post #193
The_rationalist wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is extremely misleading, men suffer from intense misandrism. Ukrainians men are forced to stay captive in their cities to fight while ukrainian women are allowed to save their lives and flee the city, because they own a vagina.

No, women are allowed to leave Ukraine because, for the most part, they are responsible for raising the next generation of Ukrainians. The number one long-term job of any society is ultimately to raise the next generation. If you don't do that, the society doesn't exist in one or two generations' time. What you consider misandry is in fact a feminist issue. Women often don't choose a life of childcare; it's something…

No post body was provided.

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#195

Post by an9n »

panda-giddiness wrote: post #156
danielktdoranie wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. One man's "propaganda" is another man's news. It's an assault on Freedom of Speech and Freedom of the Press. I also note other news networks have been happily spouting anti-Russian propaganda as well (i.e. "Ghost of Kiev", "Miss Ukraine Fighting", and the "Snake Island Martyrs" to name but 3). I also note none of the Western Media talk about shelling, murder, and rape of the ethnic Russian civilians in the Donba…

> News shouldn't have bias, full stop. Sorry, but this sort of absolutist thinking is just naive. Nobody ever won a Pulitzer Prize in journalism for "just reporting the facts, full stop". Good journalism requires context which is messy and, indeed, political. That said, propaganda isn't good journalism – it doesn't provide context so much as manufacture it. That isn't to suggest that propaganda is necessarily obvious…

> Good journalism requires context

Almost uncanny how that context always leans in a certain direction, almost like all the MSM were owned by the same people.

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#196

Post by dncornholio »

kmlx wrote: post #186
dncornholio wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is actually concerning you? I don't think we actually need all the information at all right now. Ukraine is fighting an uphill battle and they are holding longer then anyone expected. If that's the price of the truth, im happy to pay it. The truth will get out eventually anyway.

> The truth will get out eventually anyway. same thing can be said about so-called "news" from RT, no?

The fight is happening in Ukraine and what happens there is what is important. I don't care what is being posted / reported and what is not, I care about the people of Ukraine and that democracy will prevail.

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#197

Post by nybble41 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #147
rosmax_1337 wrote: post #85

Regulation: > it is necessary, consistent with the fundamental rights and freedoms recognised in the Charter of Fundamental Rights, in particular with the right to freedom of expression and information as recognised in Article 11 thereof, to introduce further restrictive measures to urgently suspend the broadcasting activities of such media outlets in the Union What. Don't gaslight me with sentences like this in a of…

https://fra.europa.eu/en/eu-charter/article/11-freedom-expre... > The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for th…

> (I'd presume they learned from the US experience, where it was left to the courts to provide the "ok but there are obviously exceptions" relief valves to the Constitution.)

If so, they learned exactly the wrong lesson. It was wrong for the US courts to do that, but at least they were acting on their own and not claiming some justification in the text of the Constitution. It's far worse to have these exceptions undermining basic natural human rights written directly into the EU charter. The inclusion of Article 11 essentially makes the rest of the charter pointless—you have "guaranteed" legal rights, except when those in power decide that you don't, for what seem to them to be good reasons at the time. I doubt there is an example of any systematic infringement of rights throughout history which wasn't cast as being in support of "public safety" or "national security" or "protection of health or morals", or some variation or combination thereof.

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#198

Post by nybble41 »

detaro wrote: post #187
causi wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Censorship does not have to be public. Private companies can and do censor things all the time. They have that right. Freedom of speech is freedom from government censorship, not private censorship.

> Freedom of speech is freedom from government censorship, not private censorship. That's not a universal definition, no. E.g. in the EU Facebook and Twitter have lost cases where they blocked posts for "ToS violations" and were ordered to restore them on free speech grounds. (whereas apparently in the US the perspective is more that banning corporations from banning people is violating the corps free speech rights,…

It is a universal definition, as natural rights are universal. What it is not is a legal definition, but you are attempting to make a legal argument.

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#199

Post by ceejayoz »

nybble41 wrote: post #197
ceejayoz wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://fra.europa.eu/en/eu-charter/article/11-freedom-expre... > The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for th…

> (I'd presume they learned from the US experience, where it was left to the courts to provide the "ok but there are obviously exceptions" relief valves to the Constitution.) If so, they learned exactly the wrong lesson. It was wrong for the US courts to do that, but at least they were acting on their own and not claiming some justification in the text of the Constitution. It's far worse to have these exceptions unde…

You're describing two systems with the same end result - rights, but with exceptions and limits. One of the systems is simply more honest about having such a setup, and it's not the American one.

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#200

Post by nybble41 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #199
nybble41 wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (I'd presume they learned from the US experience, where it was left to the courts to provide the "ok but there are obviously exceptions" relief valves to the Constitution.) If so, they learned exactly the wrong lesson. It was wrong for the US courts to do that, but at least they were acting on their own and not claiming some justification in the text of the Constitution. It's far worse to have these exceptions unde…

You're describing two systems with the same end result - rights, but with exceptions and limits. One of the systems is simply more honest about having such a setup, and it's not the American one.

I'm saying both systems have the wrong end result—the EU one by design, and the American one due to defects in the courts.

Being wrong by design is worse than having some implementation issues.

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