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GDPR enforcer rules that IAB Europe’s consent popups are unlawful

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Re: GDPR enforcer rules that IAB Europe’s consent popups are unlawful

#191

Post by phh »

Nbox9 wrote: post #186
notreallyserio wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would they need to delete derived ML data as well?

My understanding is that as long as there is no PII is in the ML model (there’s not) then any existing models do not need to be deleted.

How do you prove there is no PII in the ML model?

It has been proven countless times that it's possible to extract learning data from models. I can't see how you can prove the opposite, except, maybe, with federated learning (but even then, you need to good "ratio" of noise)

Re: GDPR enforcer rules that IAB Europe’s consent popups are unlawful

#192

Post by Isinlor »

rwmj wrote: post #105

I can't find any English language news about it, but Yahoo Japan are going to withdraw a bunch of services from Europe in April including webmail and news. They're citing GDPR costs. Edit: Apparently it's been picked up since last time I looked: https://www.theverge.com/2022/2/1/22911965/yahoo-japan-europ...

What does Yahoo Japan have to do with Europe?

Re: GDPR enforcer rules that IAB Europe’s consent popups are unlawful

#193

Post by parkingrift »

endisneigh wrote: post #146
9dev wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't care about a lot of things. Mainly because they don't understand them, or don't know about them: climate change, cancerous substances, plastic waste, homeless people, illegal whaling, domestic cats killing singing birds, sewing winter clothing or properly managing their savings. That is why we have subject matter experts providing guidance for people in a world too complex to grasp or even care about eve…

> Advertising companies are ruining the internet for everyone, some people are just too unaware to realise it. Sounds like projection. Though I'd agree that most internet users don't like ads, what's true is that most internet users don't like paying for things. Using YouTube as an example, the most popular site on the internet, the vast majority of people do not pay for YouTube premium even though it's available. At…

>Though I'd agree that most internet users don't like ads, what's true is that most internet users don't like paying for things. Using YouTube as an example, the most popular site on the internet, the vast majority of people do not pay for YouTube premium even though it's available.

This is a bit circular. People would rather use a free service than a paid service. So long as free services exist it will be hard or impossible for paid services to exist or thrive.

>At the end of the day no one is stopping you from going back to circa-2000s internet, using IRC, going on plain text websites, using BBS, etc.

There's no reason that we should have to make this choice. We don't have to live in a spyware dystopia so that we can have cheaper internet services. This spyware economy is less than 20 years old, and we should throw it out.

Re: GDPR enforcer rules that IAB Europe’s consent popups are unlawful

#194

Post by Scarblac »

johannes1234321 wrote: post #96
Scarblac wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The scary thing is that it's the EU doing this. Our national elected governments are not interested in actually fixing things like this because it doesn't immediately win votes, and there is only a limited number of national civil servants so nobody is working on this kind of thing on a national scale. But put those civil servants in a committee in Brussels with not as much short term pressure, and they can work out…

The "EU doing things" is not detached from your national government. In fact all EU legislation is being approved by your national government in the EU Council and the EU commission has to report there. (As well as the EU parliament, however the EU parliament is weak ...) Edit: maybe as addition in the last point in parentheses: The EU parliament is purposely weak, as the EU is a union of states and the member state…

I know that. What I consider "scary" is that the EU can only do this because they're aren't directly elected and so not as subject to the typical democratic pressures.

It points at a clear weakness of democracy.

Re: GDPR enforcer rules that IAB Europe’s consent popups are unlawful

#195

Post by msla »

phh wrote: post #191
Nbox9 wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that as long as there is no PII is in the ML model (there’s not) then any existing models do not need to be deleted.

How do you prove there is no PII in the ML model? It has been proven countless times that it's possible to extract learning data from models. I can't see how you can prove the opposite, except, maybe, with federated learning (but even then, you need to good "ratio" of noise)

> How do you prove there is no PII in the ML model?

Is "innocent until proven guilty" not a maxim in European justice?

Re: GDPR enforcer rules that IAB Europe’s consent popups are unlawful

#196

Post by Scarblac »

colechristensen wrote: post #104
Scarblac wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The scary thing is that it's the EU doing this. Our national elected governments are not interested in actually fixing things like this because it doesn't immediately win votes, and there is only a limited number of national civil servants so nobody is working on this kind of thing on a national scale. But put those civil servants in a committee in Brussels with not as much short term pressure, and they can work out…

Europe is obviously walking very slowly towards federalism without saying it too loudly.

Yes, of course, that's been stated as the end goal since the very first treaties in the 50s.

"Ever closer union"

Re: GDPR enforcer rules that IAB Europe’s consent popups are unlawful

#197

Post by foepys »

riddleronroof wrote: post #184
bajtos wrote: post #2

Google, Amazon, and the entire tracking industry relies on IAB Europe’s consent system, which has now been found to be illegal following complaints coordinated by ICCL. EU data protection authorities find that the consent popups that plagued Europeans for years are illegal. All data collected through them must be deleted. This decision impacts Google’s, Amazon’s and Microsoft’s online advertising businesses.

Ok but I don’t get how this consent system ran for years? How can one get pre approved? The issue here isn’t that they collected data (it’s own problems), but they they didn’t use the right language! Does this mean it will be a long term of conditions like apple does every time we use a website? ICCL might have made internet worse with this. Not better.

To this day Twitter is not even trying to comply with GDPR. They have a banner "we track you, deal with it" and that's it. So far nothing happened.

I hope that they get fined billions for keeping it illegal for so long but I doubt it.

Re: GDPR enforcer rules that IAB Europe’s consent popups are unlawful

#198

Post by parkingrift »

endisneigh wrote: post #177
parkingrift wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're conflating ads with spyware. Ads have existed as long as commerce has existed. Ads don't need spyware.

How do you propose you track ad spend without "spyware"? Or should the people spending money on ads just "trust" that their ads are actually being displayed to the types of people they want to show them to?

The same way ads work in every other industry. Have you ever been to Times Square?

Re: GDPR enforcer rules that IAB Europe’s consent popups are unlawful

#199

Post by kmlx »

parkingrift wrote: post #42

Collecting and selling digital data is not a legitimate business enterprise. It’s spyware. If no one wants to pay for your product, the market has spoken. Too bad. We must correct the insanity and digital economic imbalance that spyware businesses have created.

this looks like a classic "flame bait" comment.

> Collecting and selling digital data is not a legitimate business enterprise.

a whole international industry, legislators across the planet, entrepreneurs, employees, voters, users and clients disagree.

> If no one wants to pay for your product

who doesn't want to pay for the product?

Re: GDPR enforcer rules that IAB Europe’s consent popups are unlawful

#200

Post by Nextgrid »

endisneigh wrote: post #171
Nextgrid wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of content on the internet isn't worth paying for. Taking your YT Premium example, I'd say over half the content on there is garbage clickbait that is only viable because of ads - it doesn't actually provide enough value to the viewer (and often completely wastes their time) but the current system rewards that because by the time the viewer realizes that it's already too late and they've been paid for their ad…

I highly doubt you've personally watched even 1% of what's on YouTube, so you can hardly determine what's clickbait. That being said, who are we to say what's valuable?

I'm extrapolating based on what I see on the front page and in suggestions as well as other social networks. Most of this content is only there to solicit an ad impression, not enough people would pay money for it.

> That being said, who are we to say what's valuable?

We can infer this based on whether enough people pay for the content. There's a reason you don't see a Patreon or other way of paying for the vast majority of clickbait content.

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