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Facebook versus The BMJ: when fact checking goes wrong

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Re: Facebook versus The BMJ: when fact checking goes wrong

#191
Welcome to the future ?

Stop fact checking sites, and social media becomes even worse than it is.

Use fact checkers, and you love with false positives and false negatives.

Then narratives form around those errors ( because we are pattern recognition machines, even when there are no patterns).

So what’s the out ?

All fact checking will create some amount of False pod/negative. No amount of money, time or resources can avoid that.

Re: Facebook versus The BMJ: when fact checking goes wrong

#192

"Facebook versus The BMJ: when fact checking goes wrong" Where has it gone wrong? “We did not call into question the integrity of The BMJ’s story, only the comprehensiveness of it. That’s the point of a ‘Missing Context’ rating. The BMJ article is being used as evidence of Vaccine Conspiracy theories, it's not like the warning is on the Article, it's where it's shared on Facebook and the missing context label is rele…

Indeed, the very controversy around the label is evidence that the article needs more context.

This really seems like a Kafka trap.

Re: Facebook versus The BMJ: when fact checking goes wrong

#193
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook HIRED Peter Daszak as a 'factchecker' and allowed him to REMOVE anything that suggested the virus came from a lab. As somebody who probably incited/funded/created covid19, he was heavily incentivized to hide this crime. Facebook ENABLED this coverup

> As somebody who probably incited/funded/created covid19, he was heavily incentivized to hide this crime. > Facebook ENABLED this coverup. Wat? How is this not considered a conspiracy theory? 5 comments down an article that discusses fact checking... Hm, maybe my sarcasm-meter is off by a notch again. dunno.

It hasn't been considered a conspiracy theory since the CSPAN video from 2016 surfaced showing him talking about paying someone in China to make killer viruses.

It's at the following link, at about the 1 hour 17 minute mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AksKoMZon6Y

Re: Facebook versus The BMJ: when fact checking goes wrong

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ripping off business ideas is an aspect of competition (BK versus McDonalds), not sure it is related to morals…

Sorry, what? If I share an mp3 the record industry demands ridiculous compensation. If I steal a paragraph in a college exam and get caught, I'm sent home without credit or refund. If I sell a drawing of a certain cartoon mouse, or draw a red shirt on Pooh, I can literally go to jail. ... But if I invest my life savings to start a company based on an insightful idea and read of the market, a trillion dollar company c…

Usually general business models are not protected as intellectual property in the same way as bit-for-bit copies in the case of mp3s/writings. I’m not saying it should be.

The bigger issue that you are pointing to is that the tech companies are becoming large trusts that do everything and can leverage their size to win everywhere. E.g. see Amazon competing with Intel now.

The anti-trust movement needs to be stronger if society says: ‘wait, this isn’t a good idea to let one company win at everything’

Re: Facebook versus The BMJ: when fact checking goes wrong

#195

The entire idea of "fact checking" on social media is premised on the notion that fact checkers have some kind of superior epistemic merit compared to the checkees. When you're fact checking random people or journalists that may or may not be true, but why does Zucc think facebook's checkers are superior to the BMJ? What are the fact checker's credentials, and most importantly what is their track record? The extreme…

From What I know - Meta added fact checkers because historically they were being used to host conspiracy and worse.

Re: Facebook versus The BMJ: when fact checking goes wrong

#196
post #86

The entire idea of "fact checking" on social media is premised on the notion that fact checkers have some kind of superior epistemic merit compared to the checkees. When you're fact checking random people or journalists that may or may not be true, but why does Zucc think facebook's checkers are superior to the BMJ? What are the fact checker's credentials, and most importantly what is their track record? The extreme…

What really bugs me here is, everyone yells at facebook, saying it is spreading propaganda, lies, societal harm, etc. Then, fact checking is attempted, and people claim censorship, an imperfect job, and the idea that "How dare they!" I literally loath, hate, and despise facebook. But come on, they're only doing this because everyone piled on them, claiming they must fact check and validate things. If I was facebook,…

Perhaps these walled gardens erected walls because they wanted to become gatekeepers. Those demanding censorship were largely the same partisans who set the tone for the fact check narrative.

I don't see them as victims of demands for truthiness, but as actors participating in a deliberate charade.

Re: Facebook versus The BMJ: when fact checking goes wrong

#197
There is a different issue with the "fact checking" approach: it allows Facebook (and Twitter, etc.) to deflect blame from their algorithm.

FB's narrative is that the problem is the people who post untrue stuff, and fact checking will fix the problem (actually it won't, but it will show FB tried their best).

But the problem is FB's algorithm which promotes and publishes rampant misinformation. FB should be held accountable for what they decide to show people. Not deflect accountability onto their users.

Re: Facebook versus The BMJ: when fact checking goes wrong

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should indeed just ignore them, free speech wasn't arrived at as an optimal path by accident. Nothing changed to make it not-optimal. People need to adapt to not believing every stupid thing they read on the internet and actually thinking critically about things. The information streams of the world should not be tailored to the critical thinking ability of complete morons. It blows my mind we went from "trying…

> People need to adapt to not believing every stupid thing they read on the internet and actually thinking critically about things. Sure, free speech is optimal if this happens. But what if it doesn't happen? People are extremely irrational [0], and that certainly won't change anytime soon. What changed is that we got better at exploiting that irrationality at scale. There's no practical value in stating "in an ideal…

This assumes there are no negative externalities to the curtailing of free speech, which is laughably untrue. People now are no less rational than they have been the past few centuries when free speech was allowed to prosper unmolested. And they are no less grasping and unscrupulous when it comes to the reasons unbridled free speech was held up as an exemplar to begin with. The fact that the result of all this censorship and narrative massaging has indisputably been the pushing of harmful agendas is illustrative of the above.

Re: Facebook versus The BMJ: when fact checking goes wrong

#199
post #175
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure about the prevalence but one major peeve of mine is when someone states, X is ten meters high. Fact check: Wrong, X is 9.6 meters high. It takes away credibility.

This is one of my favourites: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/blm-terrorist-rosenberg/ Snopes acknowledges that a convicted terrorist (ie, someone that targeted civilians to enact political change) sat on the board of a BLM funding body then concludes 'mixture' because there is no universally agreed definition of 'terrorism'. > In the absence of a single, universally-agreed definition of "terrorism," it is a matter…

I understand what you are saying, but at the same time the claim was that she was a “convicted terrorist”, when in fact she was not convicted of terrorism. That’s just a fact. You can look at her convictions, and there is no conviction for terrorism.

There’s plenty to say about her actions, which are certainly terroristic, but her being “convicted” of terrorism is straight up not true, no matter how you feel about it. That’s why they say it’s mixed and subjective, because there is no objective fact you can point to that would back up the position that she was convicted of terrorism. She wasn’t.

Re: Facebook versus The BMJ: when fact checking goes wrong

#200
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of my favourites: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/blm-terrorist-rosenberg/ Snopes acknowledges that a convicted terrorist (ie, someone that targeted civilians to enact political change) sat on the board of a BLM funding body then concludes 'mixture' because there is no universally agreed definition of 'terrorism'. > In the absence of a single, universally-agreed definition of "terrorism," it is a matter…

I'd like to watch them sweat if you forced them to fact check "The 9/11 hijackers were terrorists" using the same priors. > In the absence of a single, universally-agreed definition of "terrorism," it is a matter of subjective determination as to whether the actions of Mohamed Atta - leading a group of young men to hijack planes and fly them into buildings — should be described as acts of "domestic terrorism."

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