Live data from Hacker News

Eviction notice downloads soar after federal moratorium ends

lawdistrict.com

191–200 of 229 posts

Re: Eviction notice downloads soar after federal moratorium ends

#191
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are missing that the pandemic is very much ongoing, despite the government pretending the opposite. At my institution, the semester is starting. We are serving the lower income bracket (read nursing school). Enrollment is down 20 %. This is going to have long-term consequences.

The number of nurses that are willing to quit so they aren't required to get the vaccine is insane, and I think that might be what is driving the enrollment reduction.

My understanding is that a big part of this is the backwards assertion that having natural immunity was not a viable substitute for vaccination. Nurses and Healthcare workers had very high infection rates.

Re: Eviction notice downloads soar after federal moratorium ends

#192
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The number of nurses that are willing to quit so they aren't required to get the vaccine is insane, and I think that might be what is driving the enrollment reduction.

My understanding is that a big part of this is the backwards assertion that having natural immunity was not a viable substitute for vaccination. Nurses and Healthcare workers had very high infection rates.

How can you have a substitute for a religious sacrament?

Re: Eviction notice downloads soar after federal moratorium ends

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was a landlord. I preferred to receive the rent late from someone that didn't want to be evicted. The maximum profit is renting to someone that can barely afford to pay, but also desperately doesn't want to leave. In total, I probably made a 13th months rent each year in fees. You are leaving money on the table renting to people that can afford to pay on time.

You're proud of the fact that you exploited your tenant's desperation to extract an extra month's rent when they can barely afford 12? For everyone wondering why landlords get a bad reputation, this right here is the reason. It's also what people mean when they say "It's expensive to be poor".

Yes, I am fine with it.

There are a lot of nuanced variables that are hard to enumerate, but maximizing revenue is not evil.

My tenants voluntarily chose to sign a rental agreement, were aware of the terms of that agreement, I was always in compliance with all applicable laws on rent and fee collection, and when my tenants lease was terminated, it was always voluntarily and with all parties leaving on good terms.

I agree it is expensive to be poor, but I disagree that maximizing fee collection is why people hate landlords - lying about terms in the lease, violating local laws, denying applicants based on protected status, refusing repairs, trespassing, unlawful evictions, etc.

You can hate me for what I did though, I can't change that. I wish you luck.

Re: Eviction notice downloads soar after federal moratorium ends

#194
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a fair analogy at all. Landlords didn't cause the cause the pandemic. If anything, the government did. However, they are the ones who are forced to pay for provide a service that the government desires, housing, at their own expense. This might make sense if it were a tax, but it disproportionately effects certain people. Imagine if they 1% of people were randomly selected to forfeit 10% of their 401k for…

> This isn't a fair analogy at all. Landlords didn't cause the cause the pandemic. If anything, the government did. If the government bans cigarettes, should the government then reimburse every shareholder in Philip Morris? > However, they are the ones who are forced to pay for provide a service that the government desires, housing, at their own expense Someone had to brunt the cost of the pandemic. It would have bee…

> If the government bans cigarettes, should the government then reimburse every shareholder in Philip Morris?

No, but that's because Phillip Morris isn't actively offering anything to the government. A landlord that isn't allowed to evict is. If the government forces them for provide cigarettes to soldiers during a war, they have to pay them to do so.

> Someone had to brunt the cost of the pandemic.

That's what taxes are for. Even money printing is better. It doesn't make sense for them to target landlords who serve low-income tenants in particular. That would be like forcing grocery stores to offer free food to poor locals. In the short term, it may help some people, but in the long term, grocery stores in poor neighborhoods would simply shut down and everyone would be worse off. That's why we have food stamps instead.

> If you get in the game of capital speculation you shouldn't get to go crying to the government when things don't go your way.

I agree that land speculation is particularly useless and the government should try to get rid of it, but that's not happening. Property speculation is higher than ever.

Re: Eviction notice downloads soar after federal moratorium ends

#195
post #67

These headlines are some of the weirdest backwards stories I’ve seen lately. It’s like everyone is desperate to make this into a crisis yet reality isn’t delivering the eviction catastrophe the headline writers wanted. Obviously we’re seeing more evictions now that they’re literally not banned. That’s not news. However, this is shocking: > The rates of evictions served are approaching pre-pandemic levels in certain a…

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. The current state of things appears to be that internet and media/ad revenue AI machine seem to have come together to put us in an sort of shepard tone of fear and impending doom. Pandemic, war, inflation, division, shortages, crypto, every storm has a name, everything is record breaking. I have more to be grateful for than I've ever had before, in spite of all of this some…

Agreed.

I think we also have to come to grips with the fact that there is a significant portion of the population of first-world nations who desperately WANT a crisis so that they don't have to acknowledge that their lives are miserable for reasons well within their control. Most political radicals on both ends of the spectrum fall into this category. The quantity of blue-checked Twitter personalities who appear to have this belief regarding the pandemic is pretty shocking.

Re: Eviction notice downloads soar after federal moratorium ends

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> where is the rest going? Have you owned a normal-sized house? Repairs, insurance, inspections, et cetera . Also staging, advertising, pursuing delinquencies. Rental yields in most cities are in the low single digits. Where that isn’t true, it’s because local politicians protect the landlords by restricting development, often in cahoots with grandfathered-in renters.

> Repairs, insurance, inspections, et cetera rents in the city where I live are up 11% in the past year. did the cost of repairs and inspections increase by that much? > Also staging, advertising, pursuing delinquencies ah, so I'm paying for my landlord to increase their rate of return and put my fellow tenants on the street. got it.

> rents in the city where I live are up 11% in the past year. did the cost of repairs and inspections increase by that much?

I'm charging about 20% more than I did this time last year for repairs. Material, tool, and fuel prices have been going up, and those affect me greatly. I'll probably go up more soon. I have so much work lined up that it'll be 2023 before I can get to you if you talk to me today. And it's near impossible for me to find any helpers right now.

Re: Eviction notice downloads soar after federal moratorium ends

#197

Tangential and honest question: how do eviction moratoriums help? I can see how a short ban on evictions can help prevent a spike in a homelessness crisis, but long term I really struggle with it. Is the assumption that all/most landlords have infinite money to support non-payers? Are governments subsidizing 100% of the missed rent?

There were subsidies provided by multiple levels of government[1][2], down the city level where I live. Apparently there was at least (if not more than) the usual level of misappropriation of those subsidies, so complaints from landlords abound. [1] https://dfpi.ca.gov/2021/03/15/covid19/ [2] https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/coronavirus/assistan...

My sister manages a large portfolio of properties in Virginia and North Carolina in her role as a director at a medium-sized property management firm.

The reality for her company, and many landlords, is that it was extremely easy for a deadbeat tenant to stop paying rent. They simply printed out the form, filled it out (it was essentially a 1 page form), and they could immediately stop paying rent and not be subject to eviction. No verification was needed. City workers who were definitely still employed according to public records were doing this on 3 of her properties when they did an audit.

Conversely, the programs that would reimburse landlords required far more rigorous documentation, AND ACTION FROM THE TENANT. That last part was the killer. The deadbeats simply had no interest or motivation to fill out paperwork that allowed the landlord to get reimbursed.

I know that this is anecdotal, but my sister is also an elected representative of an industry group that represents property management companies. Her group did extensive surveys and analytics, and concluded that in the state of Virginia, the problem was widespread, and her company's experience was actually a bit better than most of the other member companies.

She would call me to vent quite a bit. She was furious at how "thoughtless" the original implementation of the moratorium was under the Trump administration. She thought for sure that Biden would come in, see it as a Trump artifact, and revise it in a careful way. This didn't happen, and he instead extended it twice. It was extremely detrimental to their business, but more importantly, to any and all new tenants, as well as existing tenants. New tenants had to pay far higher rents. Her company had to cover the losses from the deadbeats, and additionally, had to "price in" the risk of a new tenant suddenly filing the moratorium form and ceasing to pay rent.

It never ceases to amaze me how bureaucracies will double down on policies while ignoring the unintended consequences they produce.

Re: Eviction notice downloads soar after federal moratorium ends

#198

Tangential and honest question: how do eviction moratoriums help? I can see how a short ban on evictions can help prevent a spike in a homelessness crisis, but long term I really struggle with it. Is the assumption that all/most landlords have infinite money to support non-payers? Are governments subsidizing 100% of the missed rent?

> Is the assumption that all/most landlords have infinite money Individually, no. As a class, yes. Property rental seems a lot like a Subway franchise in this respect. If one property owner becomes insolvent, the property will be sold to another person who is not. The tenant might be evicted by the new owner but, on average, probably not. Edit: pardon my obscure Subway reference. Subway franchises are notorious for g…

> Individually, no. As a class, yes.

Elevating group identity over individuals is the root of some of the most evil activities in human history.

It should be noted that individual human beings who moved to a new home and chose to rent their old home got burned by this moratorium as well. Often getting put in a situation where they were forced to foot the full bill of two mortgages, with no end in sight. There was a well-reported case of a terminally ill cancer patient who lost all of her income when a tenant in her split-level home stopped paying rent by abusing the moratorium.

Your Subway example was hilarious, BTW. I've seen that happen so many times lol.

Re: Eviction notice downloads soar after federal moratorium ends

#199
post #54

Tangential and honest question: how do eviction moratoriums help? I can see how a short ban on evictions can help prevent a spike in a homelessness crisis, but long term I really struggle with it. Is the assumption that all/most landlords have infinite money to support non-payers? Are governments subsidizing 100% of the missed rent?

As a landlord, I can tell you that the government does NOT replace ANY of the missed rent. Moreover, while many tenants have continued to pay their rent - MANY have gradually started realizing that I am unable to evict them, and have completely stopped paying rent. Moreover, they have started collaborating under the assumption that there is more protection if they do it together. Like other landlords, I have lost a t…

This.

See another comment I made discussing my sister's experience.

The childish, dorm-roomy attitude of landlords being "big faceless corporations" is wholly inaccurate and distorted. The same group also has this view that most people using this program were honest, good citizens experiencing true hardship. This is absolutely not the case according to every audit my sister's company did, as well as the research the industry organization she was elected to did.

It's a bunch of dirtbags capitalizing on a poorly constructed policy.

Re: Eviction notice downloads soar after federal moratorium ends

#200
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a landlord, I can tell you that the government does NOT replace ANY of the missed rent. Moreover, while many tenants have continued to pay their rent - MANY have gradually started realizing that I am unable to evict them, and have completely stopped paying rent. Moreover, they have started collaborating under the assumption that there is more protection if they do it together. Like other landlords, I have lost a t…

There have absolutely been rental relief options available to landlords, I don’t know if your situation qualifies. You are also entitled to sue your tenants in arrears for every penny of unpaid rent plus the costs of collecting. Even with a judgement you may not be able to collect if they have become destitute, that’s the nature of the business you are in. I sincerely hope you get a chance to retire, society would be…

The friction to stop paying rent was essentially zero. A 1 page form with no verification. The friction to get reimbursed, depending on where you are, was very high, and in the case of my sister's situation, required cooperation of the tenant, who had zero incentive to provide it.

I know you WANT to believe this program didn't screw over landlords, and that most of the people utilizing the program were honest, good human beings. That's simply not the case when you talk to any landlord.

Feel free to ask the person you are replying to what their experience has been. I have yet to meet a landlord that doesn't have a hugely negative view of the entire suite of pandemic programs.

Post reply on HN