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Jan 6 committee subpoenas Meta, Google, Reddit etc. after 'inadequate responses'

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Re: Jan 6 committee subpoenas Meta, Google, Reddit etc. after 'inadequate responses'

#191

Post by Sparyjerry »

rootusrootus wrote: post #78
IgorPartola wrote: post #28

I get some kind of sick satisfaction out of watching a certain small subset of HN lose their mind trying to square the circle when it comes to stuff like this. On one hand “this is government overreach!” (it’s not because the committee here is on a specific task to investigate a specific crime) and “free market!” and on the other hand “big social media companies are evil and decide what’s right and what’s wrong.” Nev…

AFAICT political tribes rule everything now, and the actual policy issues are unimportant. I rarely see anyone discussing policy, everything is very shallow, very personal.

They make it extremely personal every time because that is was calls to action. My point is, yes, for politicians actual policy is an illusion and everyone is now on a team. They are exactly the most successful when they convince others to make it personal and join their team. I'd go as far as to say that policies issues don't even align exactly on party lines except when it benefits them. Look at the filibuster rule, the exact same politicians want to eliminate the rule that said it was the most important thing in our democracy, just because now eliminating the rule would benefit their side. I don't think it would surprise everyone that politicians are self serving only. There were a number of laws that democrats said they would not vote for specifically because it would make Trump look good, not because they didn't think the law as good for people, and they would say this out loud. This is what happens in this tribe based environment.

Re: Jan 6 committee subpoenas Meta, Google, Reddit etc. after 'inadequate responses'

#192

Post by MiroF »

IgorPartola wrote: post #152
MiroF wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They subpoena you to get a better answer Sure except the subpoena in question was not actually about records of conversations that the rioters had, it was about efforts FB did/didn't take to discount election misinformation. Election misinformation is covered by free speech.

> Election misinformation is covered by free speech. In the same way as yelling “fire” in a theater.

> In the same way as yelling “fire” in a theater.

Not at all? There's a clear moral (and certainly legal) dividing line between the two.

Re: Jan 6 committee subpoenas Meta, Google, Reddit etc. after 'inadequate responses'

#193

Post by faefox »

coolso wrote: post #119
IgorPartola wrote: post #28

I get some kind of sick satisfaction out of watching a certain small subset of HN lose their mind trying to square the circle when it comes to stuff like this. On one hand “this is government overreach!” (it’s not because the committee here is on a specific task to investigate a specific crime) and “free market!” and on the other hand “big social media companies are evil and decide what’s right and what’s wrong.” Nev…

This sounds personal, and reads like you read headlines every day from 2016-2020 and got very angry at “someone” (there is a common term for this) and now you are happy that the shoe is on the other foot, despite it being a false equivalence and no such similar syndrome existing for the other side?

> no such similar syndrome existing for the other side

Do you earnestly believe this?

Re: Jan 6 committee subpoenas Meta, Google, Reddit etc. after 'inadequate responses'

#194

Post by ben_w »

_-david-_ wrote: post #179
ben_w wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A trite response like that only makes sense if pipe bombs are so commonplace in the American Capitol that mere coincidence would not be surprising. I’m not American, so you tell me: are they?

Pipe bombs are not common. I'm sure you know that. The problem is we are in an extremely polarized time. Accusing people of an act like planting pipe bombs with no evidence is not going to lower the temperature.

> Pipe bombs are not common. I'm sure you know that.

Good, but no, if you are insisting on a standard of evidence so high that you are not willing to accept that the evidence points towards the obvious conclusion, then I must use a standard of evidence that says that actually no I don’t know how common pipe bombs are in DC.

I mean, seriously I don’t know that — Literally everything about the second amendment looks that mad from outside for USA. This is in fact why I bothered to ask and didn’t dismiss the idea inside my own head.

> Accusing people of an act like planting pipe bombs with no evidence is not going to lower the temperature.

Evidence isn’t ever absolute. If I put two coins in a bag one of which is fair and the other one is biased 99% heads, I draw out a coin at random, flip it and get tales, I can be fairly sure it’s the fair coin even though I don’t know for certain.

We know someone planted them because they were found, and we saw a person putting at least one of them in place on camera. Coins from a bag, which do you think it might be?

And “lower the temperature”? Guess who is being blamed for that in all the press that I, a foreigner not living in the USA, get to see?

Hint: lots of them have already been convicted.

Re: Jan 6 committee subpoenas Meta, Google, Reddit etc. after 'inadequate responses'

#195

Post by dontreact »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #105
dontreact wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think would have happened if things went a little differently and the mob got to Nancy Pelosi? They were very close to doing so.

We would have a funeral for Pelosi, but democracy would be no closer to dying. And while it's a tragedy for anyone to be murdered, hype about it "nearly killed democracy" is just inflammatory.

If pelosi were murdered (and potentially other senators too)

Do you think the senate would still have certified the election? Or would Trump still be president?

I think the fear is that the mob was almost able to make it so that Trump’s lie about a stolen election would have overridden the democratic process.

If such an event happened, it would have been fair to say that event “killed democracy”

Re: Jan 6 committee subpoenas Meta, Google, Reddit etc. after 'inadequate responses'

#196

Post by throw0101a »

benmmurphy wrote: post #61
IgorPartola wrote: post #28

I get some kind of sick satisfaction out of watching a certain small subset of HN lose their mind trying to square the circle when it comes to stuff like this. On one hand “this is government overreach!” (it’s not because the committee here is on a specific task to investigate a specific crime) and “free market!” and on the other hand “big social media companies are evil and decide what’s right and what’s wrong.” Nev…

if congress is investigating a 'crime' then it is overreach because that is not the responsibility of congress. congress has investigatory powers like the subpoena power in order to help it make decisions about passing law. it is not meant to use this power primarily to pursue individuals.

> if congress is investigating a 'crime' then it is overreach because that is not the responsibility of congress.

If a crime was committed by the US Executive branch (e.g., President, e.g., Nixon), should the Executive branch investigate itself?

Congress investigating things goes back a few centuries:

> On November 4, 1791, some 900 U.S. army troops under the command of Gen. Arthur St. Clair, a Revolutionary War veteran, were killed or wounded in a surprise attack by Native American warriors on the Ohio frontier. The following year, in what was the new nation’s first congressional investigation, a House committee was formed to look into the debacle, which became known as St. Clair’s Defeat. As part of the investigation, the committee asked President George Washington for paperwork pertaining to his administration’s management of the failed expedition.

* https://www.history.com/news/6-famous-congressional-investig...

Re: Jan 6 committee subpoenas Meta, Google, Reddit etc. after 'inadequate responses'

#197

Post by _-david-_ »

ben_w wrote: post #194
_-david-_ wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pipe bombs are not common. I'm sure you know that. The problem is we are in an extremely polarized time. Accusing people of an act like planting pipe bombs with no evidence is not going to lower the temperature.

> Pipe bombs are not common. I'm sure you know that. Good, but no, if you are insisting on a standard of evidence so high that you are not willing to accept that the evidence points towards the obvious conclusion, then I must use a standard of evidence that says that actually no I don’t know how common pipe bombs are in DC . I mean, seriously I don’t know that — Literally everything about the second amendment looks t…

There is literally no evidence who planted the pipe bombs. I am quite willing to accept evidence if there were any.

If you drove past a gas station while it was being robbed would you consider that evidence as to your guilt in association of the robbery? It may cause the police to look into you, but it wouldn't be sufficient to find you guilty.

That is why nobody involved with the riot has been arrested for planting pipe bombs.

Re: Jan 6 committee subpoenas Meta, Google, Reddit etc. after 'inadequate responses'

#198

Post by dang »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #17

Quoted post unavailable.

Please stop taking HN threads further into flamewar. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for.

You did it repeatedly in this thread (over a dozen comments!) - that's not cool. Please don't do it again.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29935954.

Re: Jan 6 committee subpoenas Meta, Google, Reddit etc. after 'inadequate responses'

#199

Post by dang »

DerpyBaby123 wrote: post #27
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #17

Quoted post unavailable.

"Nearly Died" yes, because the leadership guiding the riot wasn't particularly competent. If they had control of more institutions, it would likely have been more successful. When saying "any other show of power other than that they managed to break through a few weakly-secured doors" you downplay the fact they the rioters interrupted a session of Congress and succeeded in their purpose of delaying the certification…

Please stop taking HN threads further into flamewar. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for.

You did it repeatedly in this thread - that's not cool. Please don't do it again.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29935954.

Re: Jan 6 committee subpoenas Meta, Google, Reddit etc. after 'inadequate responses'

#200

Post by beerandt »

whimsicalism wrote: post #173
beerandt wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet Democratics encouraged and even participated in blocking the Supreme Court confirmation vote using... a march to the capital and overrunning capital security forces and successfuy occupying every space they attempted to reach. Why shouldn't any of them been shot? Both were confirmations to the highest level of office in their respective branch of government and both were staged by political opponents protesti…

This is such a distorted picture of what actually happened. Your final reference (I'm assuming to the weathermen) is a much more apt comparison than the other protest you're discussing.

I suppose you'd label them "mostly peaceful" if only they'd have burnt everything down around them.
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