Welcome to Waifu Labs v2: How Do AIs Create? • Hacker News Board

Re: Welcome to Waifu Labs v2: How Do AIs Create?

#191

Post by Ygg2 » Wed, Jan 12, 2022, 4:27 PM UTC

nautilius wrote: post #184

Ygg2 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because if you are a mangaka/anime artist, you'll be pressured to add otaku stuff to boost sales.

And then -- pedophile content is ok for you? Wow.

You say pedophile, they say legal age of consent. I think it's different set of mores. Although it's complicated the age of consent depends on prefecture, age and circumstances and it's around 13 year old.

And anime throw wrenches by having people's apparent age being different than their actual age.

Take for example ReZero, where female heroine is 118 year old elf that looks like an average 17-18 year old, but has the same knowledge as a 12 year old human. This of course squicks out main protagonist who's about 17.

Even though by applying our social mores, he'd be in the right.

Different mores, different opinions. I honestly don't care too much about them. They are most often just stupid thing for Otakus to obsess about. And you are very fixated on pedo content, when the Otakus content is much, much broader see (and just as degenerate) - loli yuris, incest, BDSM, any combinations of previous, etc.

And these are just tips of the shitberg.

Re: Welcome to Waifu Labs v2: How Do AIs Create?

#192

Post by xcambar » Wed, Jan 12, 2022, 4:49 PM UTC

kortex wrote: post #174

xcambar wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both the A and the I in AI are debatable terms. The sole definition of intelligence is under heavy load of reconsideration the last decades with the emergence of a better knowledge of animal cognition, for example.

Why is the A[rtificial] under debate? It's not natural (biological) intelligence, unless one goes the route "humans are a part of nature therefore the things we make like plastic and skyscrapers and hamburgers are natural".

It needs to be wondered whether drawing a face or winning a game of go may or may not actually be real intelligence, only very narrow.

We like to think that AI is only statistical models, which may be true (is true?), but we have no idea that what happens in brains is anything else than a highly optimised, deconstructed, such model.

Current datasets need 10ks pics of a cat while a kid only need to see a cat twice? Good for the kid, but there's no hint there's a fundamental difference of process.

Re: Welcome to Waifu Labs v2: How Do AIs Create?

#193

Post by harpersealtako » Wed, Jan 12, 2022, 4:55 PM UTC

SavantIdiot wrote: post #183

jakey_bakey wrote: post #114

I wish I had the stones to call my company Waifu Labs

I didn't know what you meant so I googled it. The technology is cool, but the content is ... problematic. From urban dictionary: "Waifu" is used to refer to a fictional girl or woman (usually in Anime, Manga, or video-games) that you have sexual attraction to, and you would even marry. Huh.

A big part of it you're missing is that it's a joke. Anime fans definitely know they're weird, and are very passionate about the things they like (and are conscious of that), and thus a lot of humor in the community is self-deprecating and ironic (for example, calling your favorite fictional character your "waifu" or "husbando"). The fact that outside observers might think it's "problematic" is kind of the whole point.

Re: Welcome to Waifu Labs v2: How Do AIs Create?

#194

Post by commandlinefan » Wed, Jan 12, 2022, 4:56 PM UTC

bmitc wrote: post #74

This isn't really creativity is it? I like to call stuff like this statistical copying, and indeed, the linked Wikipedia article on GANs says: > Given a training set, this technique learns to generate new data with the same statistics as the training set. There isn't a creative process here nor any creative introspection going on. While the technical results are impressive, this article does not address creativity ev…

> This isn't really creativity is it? I like to call stuff like this statistical copying

Or, through decades of AI research, we're just now starting to better understand what actual creativity really "is"?

Re: Welcome to Waifu Labs v2: How Do AIs Create?

#195

Post by numpad0 » Wed, Jan 12, 2022, 4:59 PM UTC

ve55 wrote: post #8

Links to related projects in anime art generation for those interested: Waifu Labs v2, referenced in this post (generate amazing custom anime face images): https://waifulabs.com (write-up is the above link: https://waifulabs.com/blog/ai-creativity ) This Anime Does Not Exist (AI-generated anime-style artwork): https://thisanimedoesnotexist.ai (write-up https://www.gwern.net/Faces#extended-stylegan2-danbooru2019-... a…

This one too https://twitter.com/t_takasaka/status/1479784432697749513

Re: Welcome to Waifu Labs v2: How Do AIs Create?

#196

Post by AStrangeMorrow » Wed, Jan 12, 2022, 5:04 PM UTC

Gigachad wrote: post #46

This is extremely impressive. It’s the first GAN I have seen which lets you tweak the result in a meaningful way rather than being just random. I think the speed that GANs have come in to the world has really shaken people up and it’s hard to process what this all means and what it will result in. Especially the ones which generate based on real people. But the feeling this gives me, is what happens for the future of…

If interested in an other project that offers good tweaking, artbreeder (artbreeder.com) has been around for a while too. You have different models to play with (faces, anime, general, buildings, paintings etc...). Not all of them have the same level of quality and customization, but for example if you go for the face one, you get a really high level of customization: "cross-breeding" of 1 to 8 faces and then tweaking of many attributes (gender, color theme, age, ethnicity, realism, and other various details).

Re: Welcome to Waifu Labs v2: How Do AIs Create?

#197

Post by nybble41 » Wed, Jan 12, 2022, 5:07 PM UTC

nonbirithm wrote: post #186

Gigachad wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing that suggests it should be any different than human learning legally. As long as the output is significantly unique, it shouldn’t have any copyright issues.

Does it matter if the artist themselves rejects the idea though? People were discussing having a "no machine learning clause" back when Copilot was being heavily scrutinized. I wouldn't be surprised if some artists allow republishing but not machine learning use. Plenty of artists already have a clause that prohibits any kind of republishing, and Danbooru is known to rehost some of those artists' content anyway until…

> Does it matter if the artist themselves rejects the idea though?

Why would it, if there are no copyright issues? No one is obligated to accept a license unless they require permission to do something which copyright would restrict. Of course redistributing the original image as part of a public dataset may be problematic, but simply using it to train an AI model—essentially the equivalent of studying it while teaching yourself to draw—is arguably not among the things covered by copyright, so you don't need a license for that and any clauses in such a license would be irrelevant.

This is also basically educational in nature, even if it's a machine rather than a human being "educated", and educational use is often exempt from copyright in some degree or another to begin with. If the dataset is restricted to non-commercial research and educational use in the right jurisdictions then even redistribution may not be an issue.

Re: Welcome to Waifu Labs v2: How Do AIs Create?

#198

Post by numlock86 » Wed, Jan 12, 2022, 5:10 PM UTC

aniforprez wrote: post #89

numlock86 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ganguro is associated with a certain Japanese subculture and aesthetic, [...] Yes. What's your point? > [...] and not meant at all to represent darker-skinned races. No one ever claimed that. The question to my post was simply where to possibly get data from for "darker skin tones". Ganguro seems like an option because ... well, darker skin tones? Care to elaborate why you bring up "representation of darker skinned…

... because that was the request of the root comment? And also because Ganguro does not, in fact, represent races with darker skin tones so is a falsely equivalent set of data?

It's funny how people get attached to this topic even when it's just about fictional drawn characters. But yeah, for the sake of data: Just put a color filter on the images, tone the skin down and put them back into the training set. Is that a "falsely equivalent set of data" to represent those groups? Who knows. Probably, if you really want to believe in that. But before we go any deeper into this completely out-of-context racial representation argument, keep in mind that the process I just described is the exact same thing actual artists of said fictional drawn characters use to achieve the results in question.

Re: Welcome to Waifu Labs v2: How Do AIs Create?

#199

Post by nautilius » Wed, Jan 12, 2022, 5:11 PM UTC

Ygg2 wrote: post #191

nautilius wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then -- pedophile content is ok for you? Wow.

You say pedophile, they say legal age of consent. I think it's different set of mores. Although it's complicated the age of consent depends on prefecture, age and circumstances and it's around 13 year old. And anime throw wrenches by having people's apparent age being different than their actual age. Take for example ReZero, where female heroine is 118 year old elf that looks like an average 17-18 year old, but has t…

Let me summarize. For you, child rape being bad is merely an arbitrary social custom ('I think it's different set of mores.'), and you see no difference ('just as degenerate') between two 30 year old adults doing BDSM -- and child rape. Finally, for you it's just the 'story'; you find it normal to watch a 6 year-old being raped as long as the story is 'oh, she's actually 107 and from a different planet', and you think we all agree with that ('Even though by applying our social mores, he'd be in the right.')?

Did I get that right?

Re: Welcome to Waifu Labs v2: How Do AIs Create?

#200

Post by throwaway2331 » Wed, Jan 12, 2022, 5:16 PM UTC

eezurr wrote: post #166

liuru wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha, this is something that constantly ponder, while I am developing this product. Though, the conclusion I've come to is that that hand-drawn art will always meaningful for humans, because it is born of the human experience. An interesting example is the invention of photography, which at its time, was very good at doing the thing artists were doing back then (capturing likenesses) But photography didn't replace ar…

One thing to consider is the number of artists employed by businesses. I dont have actual numbers but i know video game companies employs many. Businesses have different values than an individual human, and won't care if the art is made by a computer if its cheaper and passable. Theres also huge market for NSFW art. Whos going to know who or what made the image? Comparing photography to hand drawn art is silly. They…

It's no longer art if it's for commercial purposes.

Those who have the courage necessary to become artists, and renounce the vulgarity of the world, will continue to do so.

Those who delude themselves into thinking they're creating anything while being employed in commerce, will be managed out.

The deep crevice where the two meet and manage to find compromise, will continue to be filled by wealthy, independent patrons.

Asking others to think and do as we wish is silly.

Ironically, if it's that important to you, why don't you start giving monetary support directly to artists? Changing one's own actions is more impactful than trying to change those of the many (and the prior is more likely to lead to the latter, than if one were to focus solely on the latter).