California Considers Doubling Its Taxes • Hacker News Board

Re: California Considers Doubling Its Taxes

#191

Post by jdashg » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 9:08 PM UTC

lax4ever wrote: post #11

no_wizard wrote: post #4

> to fund a first-in-the-nation single-payer health-care system. This is key here. So instead of paying this out to a private insurance company I pay it in taxes, there by my actual change is net zero, in most cases. I have a feeling most reactions might be headline driven here. I think it’s worth doing the math on how much it costs you in healthcare coverage before really judging a book by its cover here. If my comp…

Do you actually pay that much a year in insurance premiums? I don't live in CA, but I sure don't and my health coverage is pretty good. Keep in mind, this is also just the insurance premium, there's no talk of what co-pays or deductibles would be. In addition, your employer now has to pay more based on their gross receipts and if you make more than 150k a year you are paying even more.

Most people make far less than 150k in California, though you wouldn't know it if you're steeped in tech circles, or over-focused on SF. 150k was above 85%ile of returns in CA in 2018. (90%ile 179k, 75%ile 97k, 50%ile 47k) And this is in returns, so each MFJ/household can statistically replace two lower earners with one higher-earning return.

Re: California Considers Doubling Its Taxes

#192

Post by thrill » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 9:10 PM UTC

thatfrenchguy wrote: post #31

qaq wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at housing availability hard to believe there is an actual net outflow from CA

Everyone wants to leave, that’s why houses sell for 2-3m$ clearly

Just because the queue to get into the theater is getting shorter doesn't mean the ticket prices for the limited number of seats will start decreasing.

Re: California Considers Doubling Its Taxes

#193

Post by TrueGeek » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 9:11 PM UTC

hotpotamus wrote: post #166

onphonenow wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except UK is a disaster, 6M people waiting for service. Some longer than a year. Heartbreaking stories if you are paying attention.

How many millions are waiting in the US because they can't afford care?

Or going into debt because they are paying for care with loans / credit cards?

Re: California Considers Doubling Its Taxes

#194

Post by uberman » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 9:14 PM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #178

uberman wrote: post #170

California would increase taxes by $12,250 per household Let's take it at face value this is fact. For my healthcare plan I pay 6k a year on top of what the company pays (more that 20k). Then I pay copays on top of that. It seems perfectly plausible to me that I would come out ahead if the company and I switched from paying about 30k a year in healthcare costs to a single payer system with only 20k a year in costs to…

That is $12,250 on average. If you are a FAANG tech worker, it will be much higher than that, you will less likely to be coming out ahead on this the more money you make (though, to be fair, they are only proposing to fund this partially with an income tax increase).

For me the surtax would raise my taxes payroll from 12.05% to 14.05% or roughly 10k and all things considered I make a lot of money. If my employer stopped providing health insurance and instead paid the approximately 4.5% (estimated as I don't see the actual schedule of payroll tax only that it kicks in at 50k and tops out at 2.25%) business side of this. We still come out about even.

Re: California Considers Doubling Its Taxes

#195

Post by parkingrift » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 9:14 PM UTC

no_wizard wrote: post #4

> to fund a first-in-the-nation single-payer health-care system. This is key here. So instead of paying this out to a private insurance company I pay it in taxes, there by my actual change is net zero, in most cases. I have a feeling most reactions might be headline driven here. I think it’s worth doing the math on how much it costs you in healthcare coverage before really judging a book by its cover here. If my comp…

>I think it’s worth doing the math on how much it costs you in healthcare coverage before really judging a book by its cover here. If my compound deductions are the same who cares if it’s just taxes?

Have you done this analysis? Most employers cover a portion of your employer sponsored health insurance. Are you expecting that your employer will just add this amount back to your salary?

At no point in my career, going back to fast food in college, have I ever spent 5-10% of my income on insurance. I would have to include the employer portion to even get close to that.

Re: California Considers Doubling Its Taxes

#196

Post by Maarten88 » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 9:14 PM UTC

nomendos wrote: post #162

I am US Citizen living in CA, while also have lived (and am citizen) of other 3 countries, Canada as one prior to US. To remind all, Michael Moore's Sicko documentary is huge misrepresentation of how good socialized HC is, while it did point huge issues with the current privatized/greed-based private US HC with crooked HC+insurance industry. So as not all is BW, from my experience with Canadian HC, socialization of t…

> socialization of the health-care system shall produce the following [...]

It should also produce better health outcomes for the people living there. Maybe you have a well-paid job and good insurance plan, and can enjoy good healthcare now, but that is not the case for many others and can change for you if you are unlucky.

Even a very poor country like Cuba has higher life expectancy than the US. Most developed countries have better health outcomes than the US, while spending way way less on healthcare.

There may be deeper causes for this beyond the privatized healthcare system in the US, such as the legalized political corruption (lobbying, PAC's) and litigation law leading to huge overhead costs in everything. These will be even harder to change.

Re: California Considers Doubling Its Taxes

#197

Post by labawi » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 9:15 PM UTC

oa2022 wrote: post #135

dillondoyle wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most countries that have public care you can still do this, just like opting for private schools. Britain people buy private insurance for any additional services they want. But I don't think they usually get a tax incentives like private school does can in the US? https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tips/college-and-education/t...

If I get private healthcare and private education, and private pensions, I don't want to pay social security, thanks!

I don't know the state of your welfare services, but I suggest you consider it a tax. A tax you pay for those who cannot pay for private healthcare, retirement, etc. Additionally, you are covered in case you get into a bad accident, or you are down on your fortune.

Re: California Considers Doubling Its Taxes

#198

Post by wbsss4412 » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 9:15 PM UTC

cal5k wrote: post #125

ren_engineer wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

when has California's government recently shown any capability to successfully implement big projects or spend tax payer money efficiently? How is the high speed train project coming along?

If you want an extreme example of how bad a single payer system can get, look at Canada. Not only do we have a single-payer system, we've actually banned private pay of any kind for "medically necessary" services. The net effect is predictable - Canada consistently ranks very poorly in international health system comparisons. We have far fewer ICU beds, doctors, imaging machines, etc. per capita than peer nations, an…

High costs are in healthcare are just rationing by a different name.

I would love to see an international ranking that places Canada's system below that US that isn’t just coming out of some right wing think tank.

Re: California Considers Doubling Its Taxes

#199

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 9:15 PM UTC

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #103

uejfiweun wrote: post #3

If this happens, I will most certainly leave the state. I mean this is ridiculous. These people have consistently shown that their ability to spend our tax dollars is literal dog shit. People and companies are leaving the state in droves. And their response is to literally double taxes?

You haven't understood the proposal at all. The idea is to stop paying health insurance to private insurance companies, and replace that with state taxes that pay for all health care instead. Depending on your income level, the most likely outcome is that you'd see very little change in your overall compensation, plus your health insurance would no longer be tied to your job.

[deleted]

Re: California Considers Doubling Its Taxes

#200

Post by wbsss4412 » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 9:17 PM UTC

commandlinefan wrote: post #49

no_wizard wrote: post #4

> to fund a first-in-the-nation single-payer health-care system. This is key here. So instead of paying this out to a private insurance company I pay it in taxes, there by my actual change is net zero, in most cases. I have a feeling most reactions might be headline driven here. I think it’s worth doing the math on how much it costs you in healthcare coverage before really judging a book by its cover here. If my comp…

> my actual change is net zero Really? From what I can find on the internet, CA state income taxes are usually in the 10% range for most folks. Are you really paying 10% of your income for health insurance? I'm paying about 2.5% right now.

What your employer obliges you to pay directly is arbitrary. What matters is what percentage of your total compensation from your employer is healthcare costs.

I highly doubt that number is only 2.5%.