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Computers as I used to love them

tonsky.me

191–200 of 265 posts

Re: Computers as I used to love them

#191
post #180

I love syncthing as much as the next guy on here, but this article feels very much like "why doesn't this square peg fit my round hole?!" Dropbox (and iCloud) are meant more for cloud file storage than pure device-to-device synce. I couldn't go to a less tech savvy friend and say, "Oh, you use Dropbox for backups? Here, use syncthing instead!" For one, most people don't have multiple computers they want to keep in sy…

"Cloud" is fundamentally just another device. Syncing is not a square peg, monetisation is. There is no reason why syncthing cannot work on both a server in the "cloud" and an end-user device. Syncing files is a well researched and solved problem, at this point dropbox et al are not selling syncing, they are reselling IaaS + integration and gaffataping on anything else tangentially related they can conceive of to squ…

Exactly. It worked perfectly to sync my Android tablet data on my NAS, but I never tried it as a cloud file server. However it should be relatively easy to set up a VPN on a broadband (non NATted) connection, if it has a dynamic IP hook it to a free domain name using for example DuckDNS (.org), then redirect the VPN traffic to a *PI or similar board and a USB disk that will stay up 24/7, so that no matter when or from where, any other device with the right credentials can use that space as cloud storage from anywhere. The big difference being that there are no strings attached, no size caps, no sign this and that, no download of closed apps, no ads etc.

Re: Computers as I used to love them

#192

What's even easier and you don't need to install anything is plain SSH and rsync and scp and sshfs?

Is this a troll comment? That's not even close to the same thing. Rsync and scp copy data from one computer to another in one direction. Scp would require you replacing entire directories. Both rsync and scp would need to be ran manually be the user.

Sshfs doesn't sync files. You go offline and your files are gone.

Re: Computers as I used to love them

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Versioning is supported: * keep x previous revisions, or * keep old revisions for x time, or * diy with hook script https://docs.syncthing.net/users/versioning.html

I'm still looking for some way to have a nice (web) UI for this versioning though.

Using "External File Versioning" on that page you could probably have it commit to a git repository. Then view that repository on GitHub or Gitlab to get nice diffs.

Re: Computers as I used to love them

#194

Wait wait, syyncthing joins you into a cloud and sends your data to/through random people? Why would anyone trust that, over paying Apple or DropBox to send your data only to Amazon S3? How long before "oops, for years anyone who joins the Syncthing mesh has been able to request your data and nobody noticed until now"?

No? Syncthing syncs your data to other instances of syncthing that you authorize, in a p2p mesh.

Re: Computers as I used to love them

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know anyone who uses Synching with any type of cloud-based instance, so I'm not sure this is a real issue for Syncthing users. It's all P2P file synchronization between their own devices.

Then why does the author even compare the two? I can do this with time machine, or by just copying to a network drive.

I believe the other was comparing the feature of being able to sync between devices. In the case of Dropbox one of those devices happens to be a third party server ran by a multi billion dollar company. The author doesn't seem to care about that device.

But if the author did want a third party server storing data they could choose any cloud provider on the planet and run syncthing. You could also do the same thing with Dropbox however one of those third party servers will always be the actual Dropbox server. But if they decide they don't like you anymore and block you from that server nothing else will work anymore.

So in summary syncthing gives you the same thing with more control so you aren't at the mercy of one money hungry corporation.

Re: Computers as I used to love them

#196
post #81

Besides needing a (2020) in the title, this deserves some commentary. I switched from Dropbox to a mix of OneDrive and SyncThing in 2020 due to the bloat in their client app: switch: https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2020/06/21/1600 later: https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2020/08/08/1900 What I did, in a nutshell, was to remove the Dropbox client from all of my machines, link my Synology NAS to my Dropbox account (and t…

> I keep having sync issues and conflicts in my git repos even though all versions are in lockstep. Syncing git repos using a tool other than git seems like you're asking for trouble. Git is already meant to be used for distributing a repo to multiple computers. It's responsible for the "syncing". Let's say you have to computers. Both go offline. Then you make a guy commit on each computer. Then they go back online.…

Well, it wasn't in Dropbox. For many years.

Re: Computers as I used to love them

#197
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same can't happen with Dropbox, because minecraft worlds are NOT stored in ~/Dropbox/ folder. That actually reinforces my point about a separate synced folder being a plus for most users, not a minus.

> minecraft worlds are NOT stored in ~/Dropbox/ folder. They certainly can be. They can be stored wherever you like, either if you are using a modding/hacking launcher (both are very popular for non-technical players, e.g. kids who aren't programmers) or if you are running a minecraft server (the vanilla server jar runs wherever you decide to put it, and doing this is not exactly an esoteric feat; again, nontechnical…

Of course they can. However, person who knows simlink-fu and other tricks is unlikely to find himself in a situation when his data is corrupted by an incorrect Dropbox sync process. Syncthing's user, however, can screw himself with just a few mouse clicks, and I personally saw that happen.

So I myself simply sync just one folder with Syncthing, Dropbox style.

Re: Computers as I used to love them

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, because you'll have to do quite a few steps to put an actively used minecraft world in a ~/Dropbox/ folder.

That doesn't argue that Dropbox won't also ruin actively updated folders. You're now talking about Minecraft configuration which is orthogonal to your original point.

I've never seen people put Minecraft saves to anything other than the default location for their system.

Re: Computers as I used to love them

#199
> If you are a programmer, it’s unusable.

Those kind of cloud storage services were never intended for code. One has to be crazy to put workspaces in a Xcloud directory.

Git is here for this purpose. And if you want a central repo you use GitHub, GitLab or a self-hosted platform.

IIRC some alternatives to Xcloud are even based on Git.

One day a colleague was complaining that OneDrive was taking lots of CPU and showing lots of errors. This guy had checkouted a project in their OneDrive directory with the .git and node_modules...

Re: Computers as I used to love them

#200
While the article is a bit over the top it does raise a valid point of companies desperate to add more value, essentially destroying the value proposition for their most loyal users over time by actually creating negative value in the form of features that no longer work, annoying features, redundant features that distract, etc. That definitely happened to Dropbox, Evernote, Flickr, and quite a few other former "unicorns".

I have no use for Dropbox at this point in my life. Once upon a time I used it and I even considered paying for it (but didn't). But at this point it's a commodity that does not solve a problem I have and is not worth anything to me because I have better alternatives that are also freemium. If I want to share files, I have multiple zero cost options that will work without too much hassle.

My theory of software is that over time any good feature either becomes a commodity thing that adds negative value if you do it poorly (or fail to do it entirely) but does not add value if you do it well; or a niche thing that costs money that nobody cares about enough to do well for free. Usually the cheapest way to do those features well is through open source. You have to in order not to differentiate negatively. OSS is this pacman thing that gobbles up all good things in software and converges on a best possible implementation for those things and provides it for 0$. You can pay to make it go faster, for support, for convenience, etc. But the basic feature is there forever in the form of good old, free speech, OSS. And if you don't like it, you can grab the code and fix it. All good software is doomed to become a commodity.

The vast majority of things people care about ultimately end up being grabbed by one or more OSS projects and replicated. The UX isn't always great. But you can get the thing for 0$ and it will work and it will have a commodity of people nurturing and caring about it. If you are smart, you can build an entire company without ever buying any software. And many multi billion $ companies exist purely to act as a convenient facade for open source. Convenience is worth money. Features are not.

So-called unicorn companies are not based on value creation but on using investor money to "get there first" before the window to do so runs out. Timing is everything. So, you get rushed, easy to copy products. As soon as the investment happens, a dozen competitors get funded as well and typically ship competing products within months. After that the OSS pacman catches up if the thing is at all relevant. The problem (for investors) with that is that the window inevitably runs out and it is short. Also, most of these companies are one trick ponies that never had any IP worth protecting long term. So, the value payoff needs to be huge or there needs to be some kind of moat that stretches the window.

Basically, Dropbox is similar to rsync with a UI and a not even a particularly fancy/good implementation. So, as soon as there was a hint of success, people copied their rather trivial feature set and from then on it was a race to the bottom in terms of pricing. The ultimate of which is of course 0$. Such is the fate of all good ideas in software: they get copied.

Dropbox built a commodity and the obvious things happened. Copying files over a network was a solved problem long before Dropbox existed. All they did was show how it could be done more conveniently. Now numerous things exist that provide a similar level of convenience. End of story (for drop box). They might limp along for another few years but it won't matter. At this point, who even cares?

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