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Some Apple engineers rewarded up to $180k in stock bonuses as incentive to stay

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Re: Some Apple engineers rewarded up to $180k in stock bonuses as incentive to stay

#191

Post by masterof0 »

ryandrake wrote: post #102
supernova87a wrote: post #74

Apple is reaching a size where the un-coordination of its leadership and processes as it has grown (while yet rigorously enforcing other negative aspects of corporate culture) are producing a place that is harder and harder to enjoy working for. It worked for a while when the company was small enough and lines of command were short enough for leadership to control effectively, but it has grown while the people proces…

> Now, can't pay someone market rate because that would be going out of band. While at the same time, people who come in as "headline" hires from external are given not nearly such scrutiny and instead get $Ms and hiring bonuses and directorships. This seems like a common, growing problem in BigTech: It's often easier to interview and get L+1 at another company than it is to get promoted from L to L+1. Hell, it's pro…

This have been so far my experience. The L5 on my team, was L5(L4 at Google scale) at Amazon, couldn't get the promo, then interviewed with us , and got L5 with TC at the top of the bracket. I know is just one data point, but I have heard of similar stories.

Re: Some Apple engineers rewarded up to $180k in stock bonuses as incentive to stay

#192

Post by toast0 »

Waterluvian wrote: post #167
toast0 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure there's variables, but your company will most likely setup something with a brokerage and then you'll have to create an account there and have an employer equity account which will track your options. When you exercise them, the shares will go into your regular brokerage account and you can trade them like anything else (potentially subject to trading windows and other temporal conditions). Once you've got s…

Thanks. I was under the impression that until my options became stocks, my interface would be some person in the finance department. If my options appear in some managed brokerage account of mine, that makes this a lot more transparent.

Eventually, it should be in a managed account. But it may take a while post IPO to set it up. It depends how much experience the finance department has, but the brokerages know how to do it.

Re: Some Apple engineers rewarded up to $180k in stock bonuses as incentive to stay

#193

Post by supernova87a »

csallen wrote: post #162
supernova87a wrote: post #74

Apple is reaching a size where the un-coordination of its leadership and processes as it has grown (while yet rigorously enforcing other negative aspects of corporate culture) are producing a place that is harder and harder to enjoy working for. It worked for a while when the company was small enough and lines of command were short enough for leadership to control effectively, but it has grown while the people proces…

> While at the same time, people who come in as "headline" hires from external are given not nearly such scrutiny and instead get $Ms and hiring bonuses and directorships… Strict standards for the masses, bonuses for the leadership. The is the natural consequence of commoditization. If you are rank-and-file engineer #8430, you're a commodity. You've molded your skillset into a specific shape that fits into a particul…

Some of what you say is true. But lately, it feels like one of the skills of management hires is simply being able to talk like you know how to do the job.

And when they then get in the company, turns out they have no better idea / skills to change what we do than anyone internally. But they just got paid 3x to join and find that out.

But hey, maybe that's the game. And maybe the dumber companies are getting hoodwinked. Join the game I guess and make out like a bandit while the getting is good then.

Re: Some Apple engineers rewarded up to $180k in stock bonuses as incentive to stay

#194

Post by [deleted] »

supernova87a wrote: post #74

Apple is reaching a size where the un-coordination of its leadership and processes as it has grown (while yet rigorously enforcing other negative aspects of corporate culture) are producing a place that is harder and harder to enjoy working for. It worked for a while when the company was small enough and lines of command were short enough for leadership to control effectively, but it has grown while the people proces…

[deleted]

Re: Some Apple engineers rewarded up to $180k in stock bonuses as incentive to stay

#195

Post by topkai22 »

masterof0 wrote: post #176
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bonus is a bonus. Presumably this is on top of whatever they had before, so an extra $20K to $45K per year is icing on the cake. In reality, most engineers aren't bouncing around from company to company every year trying to squeeze every last dollar out of their compensation. The strategy works well for a few iterations in early careers, but eventually it starts becoming counter-productive. If you have 10 jobs in 1…

> If you have 10 jobs in 10 years on your resume, every hiring manager who sees it will instantly recognize that you're a job hopper who isn't likely to stay longer than a year. HMs in small companies, maybe, in big companies , they dont care, they are paid to bring talent in, they don't get penalized if an employee quits after a year. > This provides the chance to accomplish bigger things, build .... I have seen you…

I’m currently involved in hiring at a rather large tech company and I assure you that the hiring manager would be highly displeased if someone left after just a year. In fact, that is true of every hiring manager I’ve ever worked with, because hiring managers hire direct to thier teams and turnover is a PITA. Recruiters may not care, but managers and teammates do. That’s not to say we’d resent someone taking a better offer, but managers and ICs alike prefer lower turnover.

In also know that there is a point (basically staff/principal) where we are very reluctant to make outside hires who haven’t been at that level at another big tech company for a while. We’ll almost never up level someone at hire time. You have to have demonstrated impact over time and that is hard to do without 2.5+ years at the company (although I’m getting the sense that once you break that threshold, moving around more frequently can help again.)

Re: Some Apple engineers rewarded up to $180k in stock bonuses as incentive to stay

#196

Post by hamburglar »

masterof0 wrote: post #176
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bonus is a bonus. Presumably this is on top of whatever they had before, so an extra $20K to $45K per year is icing on the cake. In reality, most engineers aren't bouncing around from company to company every year trying to squeeze every last dollar out of their compensation. The strategy works well for a few iterations in early careers, but eventually it starts becoming counter-productive. If you have 10 jobs in 1…

> If you have 10 jobs in 10 years on your resume, every hiring manager who sees it will instantly recognize that you're a job hopper who isn't likely to stay longer than a year. HMs in small companies, maybe, in big companies , they dont care, they are paid to bring talent in, they don't get penalized if an employee quits after a year. > This provides the chance to accomplish bigger things, build .... I have seen you…

> most smart people hiring understand that you switch jobs seeking a higher TC, in the same way businesses change course/pivot seeking higher profits

> The "stay forever and maybe one day you will get promoted", is a thing of the past. You make more money switching jobs than waiting for a promotion

These statements are FAR from universally true. My TC has more than doubled in the last 5 years without a job hop. In the same time period, many of my peers have hopped to facebook et al and increased their TC comparably. There is no one true way.

Re: Some Apple engineers rewarded up to $180k in stock bonuses as incentive to stay

#197

Post by PragmaticPulp »

masterof0 wrote: post #176
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bonus is a bonus. Presumably this is on top of whatever they had before, so an extra $20K to $45K per year is icing on the cake. In reality, most engineers aren't bouncing around from company to company every year trying to squeeze every last dollar out of their compensation. The strategy works well for a few iterations in early careers, but eventually it starts becoming counter-productive. If you have 10 jobs in 1…

> If you have 10 jobs in 10 years on your resume, every hiring manager who sees it will instantly recognize that you're a job hopper who isn't likely to stay longer than a year. HMs in small companies, maybe, in big companies , they dont care, they are paid to bring talent in, they don't get penalized if an employee quits after a year. > This provides the chance to accomplish bigger things, build .... I have seen you…

> HMs in small companies, maybe, in big companies , they dont care, they are paid to bring talent in, they don't get penalized if an employee quits after a year.

Hiring managers care because it's a big hit to your deliverables every time someone leaves and you have hire someone else, bring them up to speed, and try to get them back up to the same level of knowledge as the person who left.

If you have a team of 6 and everyone leaves every 12 months, that means you're hiring and re-training a new person every other month. And every other month, 17% of your team's accumulated knowledge/experience walks out the door. And every year, you're basically starting over with a new team.

It sucks, and that's why hiring managers give preference to people who aren't serial job hoppers.

It's actually becoming fairly common for companies to give back-weighted compensation or hiring bonuses that must be paid back if the employee leaves before two years, especially for job hoppers.

Re: Some Apple engineers rewarded up to $180k in stock bonuses as incentive to stay

#198

Post by b9a2cab5 »

a4isms wrote: post #169
shrimpx wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My perception is that everyone knows job hopping is normal and companies will be happy to have you for that 1-2 years if you’re good. It’s not a black mark on your resume. For me a questionable resume is someone who spent the past 20 years at Accenture or something. Signals possibility of being too entrenched in those habits to make a contribution in a new environment.

I interview 50% or more of the senior engineers we (A YC-backed company that is post-IPO and still growing rapidly) hire. I assure you that our interview process for engineers at this level is weighted towards significant involvement in projects. We consider it unacceptable if all the projects a candidate wants to talk about "began before I was hired, and shipped after I left." And that's what you get if you are an a…

> major multi-year project

I'm not sure what company you're at but there is certainly not a multi-year project in any I've worked at. There are long term _product_ roadmaps but in order to stay agile you never commit to something as big as a multi-year project. There are only individual features that get committed to. Even in core infra (heavily technical) where needs and solutions are known committed work goes out a year tops.

Absolutely you want people who delivered things from start to finish but I've never heard of those things taking multiple years. If it takes 2-3 years for your product to go to market it's a failure, regardless of whether it's an external or internal product.

Re: Some Apple engineers rewarded up to $180k in stock bonuses as incentive to stay

#199

Post by jedberg »

slimsag wrote: post #95
supernova87a wrote: post #74

Apple is reaching a size where the un-coordination of its leadership and processes as it has grown (while yet rigorously enforcing other negative aspects of corporate culture) are producing a place that is harder and harder to enjoy working for. It worked for a while when the company was small enough and lines of command were short enough for leadership to control effectively, but it has grown while the people proces…

Serious question: what are the companies where this is not true? My experience personally and from what I have heard from others, this is basically true at every tech workplace today

Netflix.

Re: Some Apple engineers rewarded up to $180k in stock bonuses as incentive to stay

#200

Post by mghfreud »

mancerayder wrote: post #174
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also - is this even new? >50% of engineers at Google are L4+. For the last few years, at L4 you should have been getting annual ~$100k grants over 4 years if your work in The Bay. My understanding is that FB paid even more, and that Amazon was maybe 20% behind at the same level. It's not like pre-covid engineers got nothing and now you get a $120k Bonus suddenly.

Are these on top of a cash bonus?

Yes, but cash bonuses are “only” around 15-25% of base pay depending on seniority. For senior engineers, rsu grants are >= base pay.
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