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Google to end support for OnHub routers in 2022

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Re: Google to end support for OnHub routers in 2022

#191

Post by greatgib »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #54
greatgib wrote: post #50

> Looking at that, I'm wondering who is stupid enough to buy a new device from them like this. It is like 'bite me once, bite me again please.'. 'eh, we just self destroyed your device, because, fuck you, but here is a coupon to buy a new one from us that we will also kill in a few years' ...

I dunno, I'd have to do a TCO analysis; if they give you 40% off, and you just assume it'll die after X years but be fully supported for that time and then you upgrade to a faster unit with next-gen wifi or whatever, it could still work out to be a good deal. Like... not my cup of tea (TCO is even nicer when the unit's lifespan is indefinite), but it's a plausible tradeoff.

You TCO is negative in all cases. Because you had something that was working enough, otherwise you would have changed it. But now you need to spend money to change. Even if for a good price.

Also you have to take into account that you pay but not have 2 working devices in the end (old and new). Just one.

Sure, if the new one was providing significant value, there could have been an interest. Like if you network was saturated. But that would be surprising because currently 8/10 years old ac wifi routers are more than enough for most households usage.

Also, what is interesting is the Stockholm syndrom: some comments here are saying that it was probably old enough to be changed, so not so bad. But in that case, did you think about that, that you would probably have to change your router for a new one before receiving the obsolescence notice from Google?

Re: Google to end support for OnHub routers in 2022

#192

Post by pydry »

prmoustache wrote: post #177
basch wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is Bandwidth the only factor? What about 30-50 smart home devices? Every bulb or switch, water sensors, etc. Some of modern equipment is load balancing old legacy stuff better, no?

Why would you want to cram 50 so called "smart" devices is the real question. Is your quality of life improved by having your lightbulbs and switch connected to the internet. Why do you need sensors at all? My home is completely analog, like I even have to operate my windows blinds manually. I have lived in a totally connected and electrified house and I didn't view any improvement in my quality of life. Only downsid…

My quality of life is improved by heating that can be turned on remotely (while im on my way home) or on a timer (before i wake up).

Lightbulbs not so much.

Re: Google to end support for OnHub routers in 2022

#193

Post by acdha »

causi wrote: post #172
acdha wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WiFi isn’t that simple: every generation makes substantial improvements in things like how they handle contention with multiple clients or interference. Since most of us have more than one device active these days, that is noticeable — especially if you have devices which also talk to each other rather than exclusively over the internet. When I replaced my 2016 OnHub + Google WiFi mesh with an Eero WiFi 6 system, I s…

Did you notice those improvements or did you just do benchmarks to see if they improved? Not everyone's needs are the same of course, but I have no complaints about my seven year old Nighthawk R7000. Latency-sensitive devices like game consoles are ethernet, phones and laptops are 5GHz, and everything else is 2.4GHz.

I found it noticeable for anything latency sensitive - conferencing, Terraform/SSH, etc. (losing Google’s iOS hangs was extremely noticeable, of course, but that’s for a different reason)

The key thing to remember is that there’s considerable variability across different peoples’ experience. If you live in a widely spaced suburban house, you probably don’t need to worry about interference the way an apartment dweller does or even someone in a city where the neighbor’s property starts a lot closer. The layout and materials used in your house similarly have a big impact on whether your devices are operating on 5GHz close to a base station or 2.4GHz further away.

Since you have your latency sensitive devices on Ethernet, you probably are fine with an old AP. Cables are definitely better but not everyone has permission or a suitable way to run them (my house built in the 1930s did not include spare conduit).

Re: Google to end support for OnHub routers in 2022

#194

Post by christophilus »

reaperducer wrote: post #132
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It’s not a crime, since the advertising includes OTA as a feature" My car includes free service as a feature, that doesn't mean they can take off the wheels while I sleep and call it 'service'. Similarly I don't think any reasonable person or judge will agree bricking a device is called 'update'.

Similarly I don't think any reasonable person or judge will agree bricking a device is called 'update'. I had a bunch of IoT lightbulbs intentionally bricked by the manufacturer. I can't remember the name of the company now. Something beginning with "F," and ending with "Electric," I think. This was back in the days before HomeKit, when IoT was even more Wild West than it is today. I had about a dozen of the light bu…

Should’ve been suspicious when I read their tagline: “We put the F in F-electric”

Re: Google to end support for OnHub routers in 2022

#195

Post by christophilus »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #188
reaperducer wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similarly I don't think any reasonable person or judge will agree bricking a device is called 'update'. I had a bunch of IoT lightbulbs intentionally bricked by the manufacturer. I can't remember the name of the company now. Something beginning with "F," and ending with "Electric," I think. This was back in the days before HomeKit, when IoT was even more Wild West than it is today. I had about a dozen of the light bu…

That atrocious. Either this is vandalism, or we have no rights to private property any more

Or, just don’t buy “smart” devices whose software isn’t FOSS? Otherwise, you really never can be sure that you own a smart device.

Re: Google to end support for OnHub routers in 2022

#196

Post by ineedasername »

acdha wrote: post #142
ineedasername wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it due to be replaced? Has your bandwidth speed substantially improved to the point that OnHub can no longer keep up? Because otherwise it sounds like you're happy with where you're at. There's no reason to replace a well-functioning device that does everything you need just because it's reached the end of the ever-shortening consumer electronics lifecycle. My own router is about ~7 years old, I have twice the…

WiFi isn’t that simple: every generation makes substantial improvements in things like how they handle contention with multiple clients or interference. Since most of us have more than one device active these days, that is noticeable — especially if you have devices which also talk to each other rather than exclusively over the internet. When I replaced my 2016 OnHub + Google WiFi mesh with an Eero WiFi 6 system, I s…

I think that what is simple for me is that I don't make those judgements based purely on age. If I'm not having noticeable problems with a 6-7 year old router then I'm not going to write off forced obsolescence as "well it was time to upgrade anyway". I already get the full 200Mbs speed that I pay for and 15-20ms ping & low jitter. Upgrading isn't going to do a lot for me.

Everyone is able to make their own determination on that sort of thing, when they should upgrade. Or at least they used to be able to do that for this product class. Google is now baking in expiration dates that aren't even published at the time of purchase.

Re: Google to end support for OnHub routers in 2022

#197

Post by acdha »

ineedasername wrote: post #196
acdha wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WiFi isn’t that simple: every generation makes substantial improvements in things like how they handle contention with multiple clients or interference. Since most of us have more than one device active these days, that is noticeable — especially if you have devices which also talk to each other rather than exclusively over the internet. When I replaced my 2016 OnHub + Google WiFi mesh with an Eero WiFi 6 system, I s…

I think that what is simple for me is that I don't make those judgements based purely on age. If I'm not having noticeable problems with a 6-7 year old router then I'm not going to write off forced obsolescence as "well it was time to upgrade anyway". I already get the full 200Mbs speed that I pay for and 15-20ms ping & low jitter. Upgrading isn't going to do a lot for me. Everyone is able to make their own determina…

I’m not defending Google but almost everyone I know who replaced a 6+ year old router then spends a month saying they should have done that sooner because the differences were noticeable. Given how heavily most people use WiFi now, spending something like $0.50 per day for your entire family seems like far from the most pressing area to economize.

The other thing to consider is how the rest of the market compares: a lot of people have routers which still work but are no longer secure, so this entire field seems right for a legal requirement of, say, a decade support period and/or mandatory recycling.

Re: Google to end support for OnHub routers in 2022

#198

Post by anaganisk »

whatever1 wrote: post #67

Btw Onhub does not even have a browser accessible interface like every router has. The only way to manage it is through the app (that they will decommission). Reviewers and experts called this out at the time, but Google reassured that onhub will not face any issues since they will commit to long term support of the device. As a testament to that they highlighted the overspecification of the device (it had enormous r…

No post body was provided.

Re: Google to end support for OnHub routers in 2022

#199

Post by thetinguy »

ineedasername wrote: post #92
admax88qqq wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure people said the same thing about 802.11ac when everyone was on n, or n when everyone was on g. Faster is always better. New 802.11ax also improves contention between devices.

I have ~7 year old bog standard wifi router that has more than enough speed to saturate my 200Mbs downlink. Up to 7 or 8 devices online at a time when all family members are home, and there's never a contention issue. I can hog the connection w/ a huge Steam download, and then when they kids start streaming netflix to the TV it's still all shared nicely with me getting a reduced speed as the stream kicks in, everythi…

You live in a house. In an apartment there are 50 other networks within a 100 feet of you.

Re: Google to end support for OnHub routers in 2022

#200

Post by vel0city »

jjav wrote: post #178
whatever1 wrote: post #67

Btw Onhub does not even have a browser accessible interface like every router has. The only way to manage it is through the app (that they will decommission). Reviewers and experts called this out at the time, but Google reassured that onhub will not face any issues since they will commit to long term support of the device. As a testament to that they highlighted the overspecification of the device (it had enormous r…

Phone apps (and the mobile OSs they run on) have a very limited support lifetime. What phone apps from even a decade ago still run if unmaintained? Or are even available? No non-disposable hardware should ever depend on a phone app, lest it become equally disposable. All my electronics and computers from the 80s and 90s run just fine today! In great part because they don't depend on anything. Electronics from the 202…

Phone apps eventually failing to work is incredibly frustrating. I own several overall pretty simple Android games which were delivered as APKs which don't run on modern Android. With API targets constantly changing underneath its impossible for even somewhat basic apps to stay functional after a few generations of OS.
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