191–200 of 339 posts
Sadly, no dedicated F-row. I would even settle for a subset of keys that aligned with the columns. I do not consider layers an adequate replacement. Happy to see they are moving away from their own software configuration. Not a fan of the software interface on the Freestyle Pro. More than once I have gotten myself into a loop where I am unsure which function mode is activated and how to switch back to what I want. I…
For what it's worth I really hate the dinky little F keys on my Kinesis Advantage 2, they're hard to hit, awkwardly positioned and feel gross. F8 and F9 are entirely impossible to hit without moving your entire hand. I consider this an upgrade. I personally think layer beats any keys I can't hit without taking my hands off home row. That said my other main daily driver is an HHKB so I'm pretty used to switching layer…
On the whole the “home row” insistence seems like a bit of an obsession at times. It’s often nice, comfortable, and efficient, but I refuse to believe that anyone ever got hurt (RSI and all that) by moving their hands to the nav cluster every once in a while. (Or else all those piano players must be in some real trouble.)
I like the tenkeyless formfactor. Then I get a standard keyboard minus the numpad. And I can use a dedicated numpad if I need it.
FWIW I've been quite happy with the ZSA Moonlander https://www.zsa.io/moonlander
I have one, but it's in a drawer now because I was finding it too difficult to switch between it and a normal laptop keyboard. I want a split keyboard that has all the keys in the same places, so muscle memory doesn't need to adapt. I touch type, so the same fingers just need to find the same keys in the same relative positions. Mainlander does not do that, and I can't find the layout or top view zoomable photos for…
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If you haven’t, you really should check out the Moonlander that’s referred to elsewhere in this thread. I switched to it from a Kinesis Advantage 2 and couldn’t be happier.
The Moonlander is also missing F-keys? People can swear up and down how intuitive and natural layers are, but I do not care. If there is ever a decision to be made between more and fewer keys, I always want to default to more.
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You find ABS (soft and light plastic that wears down with even moderate usage) to be superior to PBT which is heavier and FAR more durable?
I'll be the first to admit I know nothing about keycaps, it always seemed like worrying about the paint on a car and ignoring the engine. I'm guessing they had to use the worse keycaps on the "Pro" for backlighting?
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> I would imagine you can add an F key layer pretty easily so this shouldn't be a big deal That may be the case, but the issue I have with this is that I need, often enough, to press random F keys while not actively using the keyboard. Like for example refresh HN while eating an apple (F5). It's a pain to have to press multiple keys.
They also sell pedals, which, I guess, you could use to switch layers. I am thinking about using pedals to switch to the arrow keys layer. I wonder what other uses the pedals have?
When my Advantage gives out, I'll likely get a 360. They are expensive, but they are built to last in my experience (I bought my first PS/2 Kinesis keyboard 20+ years ago when I did email tech support for Iomega (Zip drives - hundreds of emails a day), had it for 10 years, sold it for half of what I paid for it) and bought the USB version of the Advantage that I still use today.
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My concern with this keyboard and others without F keys would be how awkward some IntelliJ keyboard shortcuts would be e.g: LayerX + cmd + shift + 9 to rebuild a file. There are much worse offenders I am sure.
If you're using layers already, it's a small step to just add dedicated keys for those things in a layer. So that becomes LayerX + 9, or LayerX + R (for rebuild), or whatever combination you want.
My ideal keyboard would be shaped to accommodate the neutral state of the hand. Hitting modifier and a key should feel as comfortable as a natural pincer grip. I certainly don’t want to use my weakest finger to hold a modifier key, even if it’s on the home row. I’d try to squeeze a fifth thumb key in if it could be ergonomic, so as to have control, meta, super, shift, and space all on the thumb.
The Kinesis Advantage 2 comes closer than any other board I’ve used. I’m not entirely satisfied with the lack of adjustability of the thumb cluster though. Not everyone has the same size hands after all. It’s fairly comfortable at lap level though.
Sadly, no dedicated F-row. I would even settle for a subset of keys that aligned with the columns. I do not consider layers an adequate replacement. Happy to see they are moving away from their own software configuration. Not a fan of the software interface on the Freestyle Pro. More than once I have gotten myself into a loop where I am unsure which function mode is activated and how to switch back to what I want. I…
I would imagine you can add an F key layer pretty easily so this shouldn't be a big deal. I found it impossible to touch-type the F-row on my Advantage 2, and it's awesome to be able to move keys closer to your fingers. That being said, I don't see a reason to upgrade. I've ordered replacement key wells so I can install my own switches, and since the Advantage is my desk keyboard I'm not worried about portability.
“But the home row.” Right. And that’s sometimes a plus. But (1) moving your hands a bit is often not a big deal (unless you have to go back and forth a lot—then I think it’s a drag), and (2) even if things like using the (F key layer) arrow keys might be comfortable, it might not be comfortable to have to use yet another modifier key in order to use common functions like move-by-word (e.g. Ctrl+Left) or even move-and-mark-by-word (Ctrl+Shift+Left).
It’s not an objective win either way. So you definitely cannot just say that it “isn’t a big deal” as if having to use another layer has no cost associated with it.