Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch reviews • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch reviews

#191

Post by amluto » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 3:56 PM UTC

bagacrap wrote: post #188

amluto wrote: post #40

> Machine learning algorithms are getting sophisticated enough to figure out whether a batch of 100 reviews is mostly talking about can openers or garlic. This barely needs ML. Amazon knows, a priori , what product the reviews were for. The fact that garlic reviews can be repurposed for can openers, regardless of their actual text, is the problem. The real underlying problem is wrong incentives. Amazon makes money wh…

how do you clarify a valid product update? Aeropress changed the plastic used at some point in ~2013 but didn't publicize it widely. Should the Amazon listing start over from scratch for that type of change?

Apple reviews start over unless you explicitly ask for all versions. This is mildly obnoxious but works okay. Amazon could easily show reviews for the current product and a nice display of predecessor products and their reviews.

Re: Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch reviews

#192

Post by Workaccount2 » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 4:09 PM UTC

nerdponx wrote: post #159

maeln wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What start to really annoy me is how it as become almost impossible to buy quality product anymore. And the issue is not even limited to Amazon. Recently, at work, we had to make a bunch of RJ45 cables. So we bought some cable, terminals and a crimper and a tester. The crimper was so horrible, we add to cut and re-crimp new terminals 2-4 times before having a working cable. So we said fuck it, lets go buy another one…

I'm so glad someone else is noticing this. I am noticing it everywhere : clothing, furniture, cooking equipment, dishes & cutlery, even houseplant pots. I wonder if this is a phenomenon similar to "shrinkflation", or if it's just the long-term corporate master plan.

No one seems to care about quality. It's all about price. In the "Cheap, fast, quality triangle - pick 2" society has moved hard towards cheap, fast. Companies don't even want to cater to anything else.

Re: Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch reviews

#193

Post by CabSauce » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 4:32 PM UTC

klabb3 wrote: post #65

paulpauper wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same for YouTube. they allow blatant crypto scam videos to run (such as videos impersonating famous people like Michael Saylor) yet none of their hundreds of highly paid engineers are able to do anything even though it is such a blatant fraud and people are losing a lot of money. It's like "who cares if users are being ripped off. sucks for them. not our responsibility." Unless a law is passed holding these companies…

> yet none of their hundreds of highly paid engineers are able to do anything Moderation doesn't scale well, so hundreds of engineers don't go very far even if you put them all on moderation. Google doesn't like to put money on anything that can't be automated (even when it's the appropriate, like customer service), hence you see only ML filters that of course can't tell the difference. Also, careful what you wish fo…

The first ammendment doesn't apply to a private company.

Re: Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch reviews

#194

Post by wheels » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 4:33 PM UTC

paulryanrogers wrote: post #160

wheels wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has had a significant impact on my buying habits as well. For luxury items, I tend to order them from a large department store chain, which is pricey, but more predictable quality, and for cheap knock offs, I just go to the source and get them from AliExpress for 1/3 the price they are on Amazon. Nowadays, you see almost the exact same stuff there without some rando brand I've never heard of attached to it.

I intentionally bought a higher end, brand name, cable modem from Best Buy. It stopped working within 48h. Sadly the quality drop isn't limited to counterfeits, or big box retailers are selling them too.

Yeah, I don't mean that being name-brand ensures quality, but buying from a big-box or department store at least ensures that you're getting the thing you order. The whole point of brands from a consumer perspective is that they build a reputation on that brand, and you can choose to purchase things in the future based on past experience with the brand. Amazon breaks that because of the counterfeit and no-name-brand stuff.

Re: Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch reviews

#195

Post by xxs » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 4:38 PM UTC

AutumnCurtain wrote: post #170

maeln wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What start to really annoy me is how it as become almost impossible to buy quality product anymore. And the issue is not even limited to Amazon. Recently, at work, we had to make a bunch of RJ45 cables. So we bought some cable, terminals and a crimper and a tester. The crimper was so horrible, we add to cut and re-crimp new terminals 2-4 times before having a working cable. So we said fuck it, lets go buy another one…

You can still buy from Mcmaster-Carr. You'll pay more, but reliable quality is there if you need it.

That's not available in the EU (where they are, given the price in Euro). Even if you can use it - it will be all imperial.

Re: Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch reviews

#196

Post by qvrjuec » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 5:14 PM UTC

amluto wrote: post #191

bagacrap wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how do you clarify a valid product update? Aeropress changed the plastic used at some point in ~2013 but didn't publicize it widely. Should the Amazon listing start over from scratch for that type of change?

Apple reviews start over unless you explicitly ask for all versions. This is mildly obnoxious but works okay. Amazon could easily show reviews for the current product and a nice display of predecessor products and their reviews.

This would only work with the assumption that the owners of the product listing would update the version of the product in good faith. It would only be in their interest to do so if the current version of the project would get better reviews than the older version, and what I would imagine normally happens is the old version is made better to get better reviews and is then modified to be cheaper and worse later on.

Re: Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch reviews

#197

Post by mmcdermott » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 5:18 PM UTC

noduerme wrote: post #56

I wish I could say I stopped buying things off Amazon for ethical reasons, but the truth is, I stopped buying because if you look closely at the reviews, you realize that almost everything for sale there is now a scam or a knock-off. This was a slow creep for awhile, but now the problem has grown exponentially. Amazon is what Canal Street was in the 90s - somewhere to buy fakes, stolen goods, and electronics that mig…

I haven't given up on Amazon by any stretch, but I have started checking manufacturer's web sites for things I had previously purchased on Amazon. I've gone so far as to start ordering some of the cheaper stuff from Walmart. Figure if it's going to be cheap stuff, it might as well be curated cheap stuff.

Funny enough, ebooks is probably where I've stayed the most solidly on Amazon.

Re: Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch reviews

#198

Post by mrexroad » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 5:35 PM UTC

14 wrote: post #74

noduerme wrote: post #56

I wish I could say I stopped buying things off Amazon for ethical reasons, but the truth is, I stopped buying because if you look closely at the reviews, you realize that almost everything for sale there is now a scam or a knock-off. This was a slow creep for awhile, but now the problem has grown exponentially. Amazon is what Canal Street was in the 90s - somewhere to buy fakes, stolen goods, and electronics that mig…

I was recently looking for some Goodyear welt boots and a amazon suggestion popped up in the search feed. I did click it to see what they looked like but right away though no way I would buy a nice boot from Amazon I doubt they would actually be Goodyear welt boots. This should concern amazon. If I am afraid to buy something then they are losing money. You would think they would want to bolster public trust in them.

I love Goodyear welt boots. I tend to only buy at Nordstrom anniversary sales, where boots such as 1000 Mile Wolverine or Redwing are often 30%+ off. I’m sure there’s cheaper deals for same brands, but the return policy makes it worth it in rare event of a defect. Now I just need to find a new cobbler—-mine closed shop during pandemic.

Re: Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch reviews

#199

Post by mrexroad » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 5:36 PM UTC

op00to wrote: post #150

noduerme wrote: post #56

I wish I could say I stopped buying things off Amazon for ethical reasons, but the truth is, I stopped buying because if you look closely at the reviews, you realize that almost everything for sale there is now a scam or a knock-off. This was a slow creep for awhile, but now the problem has grown exponentially. Amazon is what Canal Street was in the 90s - somewhere to buy fakes, stolen goods, and electronics that mig…

I mostly buy groceries and other food stuff from Amazon. None of it is fake, and comes from the same distribution channels as the grocery stores.

Maybe they’ll leapfrog impossible with fake meat .

Re: Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch reviews

#200

Post by jamesmaniscalco » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 5:49 PM UTC

stdbrouw wrote: post #129

maeln wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What start to really annoy me is how it as become almost impossible to buy quality product anymore. And the issue is not even limited to Amazon. Recently, at work, we had to make a bunch of RJ45 cables. So we bought some cable, terminals and a crimper and a tester. The crimper was so horrible, we add to cut and re-crimp new terminals 2-4 times before having a working cable. So we said fuck it, lets go buy another one…

That's interesting, I've been renovating my home for the past two years and have had the exact opposite experience: I've been quite happy with my cheap pipe bender, cheap angle grinder, cheap hex crimper, cheap multipipe pliers as well as store brand consumables like hybrid glue, tape, drill bits and whatnot. For electrical work I do buy Knipex most of the time and for tools that get used heavily it's usually Bosch,…

For some time now, for buying home improvement tools, I have followed the heuristic “buy the cheap one, then once it breaks, buy the expensive high-quality one.” I find that this helps make sure I don’t waste money on something I will only use once or twice.