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The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

mcc.gse.harvard.edu

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Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#191

Post by kelseyfrog »

AlwaysRock wrote: post #129
jbrun wrote: post #4

It's a bit paradoxical. I have a tech company and most staff want to come to the office 1 day a week. Getting them to come is very tough. Many of my staff and friends don't want to have kids, make no effort to find a partner and find all sorts of excuses. Netflix, the internet and these things are part of the problem, but I have no clue what the solution is. There is only one way to not be lonely - be with people who…

I got involved with a weekly online poker game with some college buddies early on during the pandemic. It's been life changing. I know at least once a week I'm hanging out with friends and there are no expectations or pressure other than shooting the shit and playing poker. I'm drastically less lonely based on that one life change. It's incredible what a difference that can make.

Fantastic advice! Lately I've been re-thinking how I've made friends throughout my life. I had some things right but some others were misguided. Creating intentional spaces was something right. I put myself into situations where I could be friendly with workmates during lunch and definitely felt engaged and friendly with the people there.

Over the years though, it felt more and more hollow. We've had time to step back and think lately. I realized what was missing was emotional openness and that comes with a little vulnerability. While being friendly with workmates is nice, it isn't the place to show emotional vulnerability. I had set myself up to never be able to turn associates into friends.

It finally clicked as to why people keep their work and friends separate. I'm glad you found your groove. The quality of life that comes with having deep friendships is incredible. I hope stories like these inspire others to take a step toward realizing deep friendship.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#192

Post by mlac »

papito wrote: post #59

What's striking to me is that it also deepened the supply of assholes. One would think that after one year under effective house arrest people would be happy to see others and be nicer to each other, but the opposite is true.

I think people expect other people to be on edge, and some people are on edge, and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

This is the first time I’ve been out in more than a year, and you’re going to be a jerk? NO! I get to be the jerk!

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#193

Post by DoingSomeThings »

jbrun wrote: post #4

It's a bit paradoxical. I have a tech company and most staff want to come to the office 1 day a week. Getting them to come is very tough. Many of my staff and friends don't want to have kids, make no effort to find a partner and find all sorts of excuses. Netflix, the internet and these things are part of the problem, but I have no clue what the solution is. There is only one way to not be lonely - be with people who…

This is similar to the concept of miswanting. Sometimes, the things we think we want aren't always what's good for us. Staying at home is easy and seems attractive, but is actually making us more isolated. Reducing effort sound attractive, but in the end removing friction doesn't actually bring happiness. Effort is difficult, but makes us better off in the end.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#194

Post by vorpalhex »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #176
vorpalhex wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you spend all your time just mulling about online, or watching Netflix, or playing a game, then it's not surprising that you are lonely. You are engaging in solo activities that other people can't really join. It is not anymore surprising that you are overweight if you don't exercise, and especially if you aren't cooking at home ever. Cut out any drugs, go to bed at a reasonable hour, exercise, get a hobby, eat de…

> but if you try a few different organized social events (board game meetups, hiking group, whatever) you will probably start talking to a few people. In my experience, actually no. I took up rock climbing about a decade ago, which most people would say is a fairly social activity. I rarely talk to anyone and certainly wouldn't describe anyone I've met at the gym as a friend. You have failed to consider that maybe th…

> If you still can't, then you need to talk to a therapist. You probably have either never developed or allowed your social skills to decay and need help to get them back on track.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#195

Post by formerly_proven »

gonehome wrote: post #180
dionidium wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When was having a partner a precondition for buying a home? When you make an offer on a house you're bidding against two-earner households. For a lot of us in tech the salience of this fact is diminished by the industry's high salaries, but for most folks this is a really big deal.

This is only an issue because of constrained supply driving prices up. If there was more supply, prices would stabilize somewhere lower. Given enough supply that point would be somewhere one income could support. It's the constrained supply paired with high demand that drives prices up and requires multiple high incomes to compete (especially in places where this has been taken to the extremes because of NIMBYism and…

Regardless of market conditions, DINK still offers a huge economic advantage because, well it's in the name: two incomes, ~half the living expenses compared to a single. It's popular because it's meta.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#196

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

vorpalhex wrote: post #194
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but if you try a few different organized social events (board game meetups, hiking group, whatever) you will probably start talking to a few people. In my experience, actually no. I took up rock climbing about a decade ago, which most people would say is a fairly social activity. I rarely talk to anyone and certainly wouldn't describe anyone I've met at the gym as a friend. You have failed to consider that maybe th…

> If you still can't, then you need to talk to a therapist. You probably have either never developed or allowed your social skills to decay and need help to get them back on track.

Or, maybe I just don't enjoy interacting with strangers very much? It seems pretty insulting to insinuate that just because someone isn't very social it means they are fundamentally flawed.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#197

Post by BoxOfRain »

panaffa wrote: post #91
mrdoops wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They need stable, actionable futures. Homes they can afford to own, communities they can raise kids in, an environment that won't go up in flames; they need systems that have their back.

Good point on agency. Throughout their lives GenZ has either had less agency or felt like we have less agency to do what we want. Certainly true for some financial goals like buying a house

I think a lot of this lack of agency is what's driving the current interest in things like van life and digital nomadism. Whichever way you sell it, the idea that people ought to live every year until their 40s spending a huge chunk of their wages paying off some random Baby Boomer's mortgage through extortionate rents rather than their own is a bleak thing to face, especially when you can't even hang up a picture or adopt a pet in a lot of cases.

I for one am planning on moving onto a sailing yacht next year, while it's not exactly much cheaper that money is better spent on the inevitable maintainance than keeping the landlord's wine cooler full!

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#198

Post by mandmandam »

therealdrag0 wrote: post #173
mandmandam wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As apt as those suggestions may be for this crowd, they are neither practical or even polite for a huge proportion of the country.

Can you elaborate?

There are many neighborhoods in America that don't have coffee shops, at all. And many that you wouldn't want to be caught dead cycling around in on a pushbike.

On a broader scale, the median wage in America is only ~30k, while the cost of rent and basics far outpaces any increase in wages. So the idea that people would use the time off from their excessive working lives to go hiking is actually a bit insulting.

The comment I responded to reeks of ignorance of the reality of the daily lives of so, so many Americans; who if they have any free time and disposable income it sure as fuck isn't going to be spent hiking up mountains and buying decent hiking gear.

... I visited Pittsburgh last winter, and was struck at the differences between neighborhoods. In Squirrel Hill the coffee shops were open and trading, the sidewalk was free of snow, people got their groceries delivered from Giant Eagle. In Braddock, the sidewalks were cracked to pieces, layered with demonically slippery ice that hadn't seen a grain of salt in years. There wasn't any cafe, or bagel shops, or proper grocery store; there was a dollar store and a bodega with people outside trying to sell me clothes, or threaten me because I only gave them a dollar.

So I dare you, go to your city's equivalent of Braddock and ask them how much they like hiking. Ask them how much free time they have, ask them why they don't socialize in coffee shops. [I'm not shitting on Braddock - I liked it, there were nice people there, and many neighborhoods are far worse.]

The reality is that poverty amplifies loneliness while reducing the ability to socialize, but so many Americans are happy in their little bubbles while huge portions of the country crumble around them.

The world knows how unequal American society is, from welfare to justice to infrastructure; but wealthy Americans seem not to be interested (or to even think of themselves as wealthy). The blissful ignorance of most American's daily struggle is only blissful for the ignorant.

This isn't flamebait or nationalistic prejudice; just my own observations about a country that seems to be racing blindly to an even darker place.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#199

Post by kelseyfrog »

vorpalhex wrote: post #106
0des wrote: post #33

We are victims of our own comfort. It's easier to stay home in our filter bubbles unchallenged. People don't know how to socialize these days, it's easier to flick idly through facebook. Awkward conversations with strangers don't happen anymore, because the second a familiar conversation with the bartender ends, everyone reaches into their pockets and retreats back into their digital security blankets. Try having a c…

As a youth, I remember being strongly instilled that neither politics nor religion were appropriate topics for "polite conversation". Instead you generally talked hobbies, plans, family, etc. Conversations are a bit of a puzzle. You are trying to identify the overlap of two parties interests. Now I see a lot of people who start right out of the gate with politics and immediately become hostile when you disagree on so…

I remember the same. However, as I've gotten older and everything has become political, the non-political path has gotten smaller and smaller and has all but disappeared.

Even more importantly, I've realized that it's not healthy to have an entire social diet composed of polite conversations. Emotional vulnerability and openness is a necessary ingredient for meaningful social engagement. An opening move into politics is still an out of pocket move, but never engaging openly stunts a potentially deep bond.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#200

Post by readflaggedcomm »

bee_rider wrote: post #159
bloopernova wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've chatted with a couple of people who feel that their country (USA) is descending into chaos, and they don't feel like investing in a doomed future. I agree with the general feeling, but I'm trying to use it to motivate myself to have more fun. As to why people feel doomed: Republicans are putting the most faithful trump zealots in places to most influence the next elections. Remember that the Republicans believe…

If people actually think their country has a chance of upcoming civil war (or many other crises like ecological collapse), they should expand their in-person social network -- mutual aid is an important resiliency strategy.

Which is made all the more difficult when people react violently to your attempts to connect with them, because they perceive your political stance as a threat (usually through misunderstanding). No wonder we clam up and brace for war.
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