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California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

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Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#191

Post by uejfiweun »

Not from California, but I took algebra in 7th grade - it was the advanced math course in my public middle school. It was a much-welcomed safe haven from the other classes - the middle schoolers here were actually SMART. In that class I sat next to a guy who taught me how to program the TI-84. We would spend all class programming, making games, and just learning.

Now, over a decade later, I am a professional software engineer. Sitting next to that guy in my 7th grade algebra class set my life on a course that turned out to be great. It makes me sad to know that future students won't be able to have such opportunities to be surrounded by similarly smart people. In the rest of my middle school classes the disrespect, distracting behavior, bullying, etc. were totally out of control - now I guess students won't know anything different.

I think this is a TERRIBLE decision, pushed by radical leftists that are completely out of touch with regular people. I wonder how much farther California and its cities will fall before people wake up.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#192

Post by Eelongate »

riversflow wrote: post #166
iimblack wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve never heard of anywhere in the US doing just one year of math. My family currently in high school are required to do math all 4 years.

California requires 2 years of Math in high school. https://www.cde.ca.gov/ci/gs/hs/cefhsgradreq.asp

Good grief, how can that even work? If I had gone a full one or two years without any math class, I would have lost the habit and floundered when it came time to take a math class again. Are they deliberately setting kids up to fail in California?

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#193

Post by holonomically »

coolspot wrote: post #163
logicalmonster wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there an achievement gap for other groups such as Asian students?

No, even for Asians from poor countries and with language barrier. But we are not allowed to talk about that.

Talk about what?

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#194

Post by giantg2 »

ramesh31 wrote: post #59
nottorp wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I always find it hilarious that the pre college education in US is so messed up. Instead of doing Algebra 1, Algebra 2, calculus, geometry as one subject that you do in a year and then completely forgetting about it for the rest of the high school, how about you do a little bit of everything every year from grade 8-12. Problem solved. I don't understand. US high school kids only do math one year out of the 4? And n…

Math in US high schools ends at what most countries would consider a middle school level. Algebra 2 is generally the only requirement. The vast majority of students graduate without ever even knowing what calculus is.

The question in my mind is, how useful is calculus in most people's lives?

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#195

Post by chrisseaton »

threatofrain wrote: post #181
nostrademons wrote: post #130

The irony is that this is probably going to exacerbate social injustice. Cupertino kids are going to be taking extracurricular math through RSM or Kumon in elementary school, and then the Cupertino school district (in the article) says that they have no intention to comply with the recommendations. SF kids aren't going to be exposed to algebra until 9th grade and then get a rude awakening in college when they realize…

It's notable that Cupertino has some remarkable public schools, with high schools that have about half of their math faculty as Calculus teachers, and half of the students incoming from junior high are on track to finish Calculus by their junior year. Some students continue their math education at local colleges. Part of the success is most certainly the student culture, which pushes far harder than the faculty. It's…

> with high schools that have about half of their math faculty as Calculus teachers

What does this mean? Is there some special qualification or licence to be allowed to teach calculus?

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#196

Post by busymom0 »

ryanobjc wrote: post #142
busymom0 wrote: post #88

I immigrated from India after high school and we had already studied advanced calculus and other subjects by high school. Basic Calculus was introduced in grade 9 onwards if I remember right. When I immigrated for university to Canada, I was teaching algebra, trig, calculus etc to university students 1 year above me. All these delaying important subjects is going to let immigrants from other countries like India, Chi…

Dude, you have no damned idea what you're talking about. You are extrapolating from N=1 to a state of 36,000,000 people. Your experience is not the guiding star for state-wide policy. Also consider this... the people who work on this stuff, have spend years and years on this stuff. Perhaps... they... know what they are talking about? As someone with a kid, introducing subjects before kids are ready for it is counterp…

I am sorry but I don't think you have any idea of what you are talking about. No, I am not N=1, nor was I upper X percentile of my peers in India.

CBSE and ICSE boards, 2 of the major boards of education in India had calculus in grade 11 and 12. This wasn't me being exceptional, it was standard practice and millions of us learnt it. The millions of kids in India in CBSE and ICSE board education is much higher than CA's population.

You can check out the syllabus for grade 11 for ICSE board:

https://www.cisce.org/pdf/ISC-Class-XII-Syllabus-2016/17.%20...

Very basic differential calculus was introduced in grade 9/10 and then by grade 11, we were performing decently advanced differential calculus. In grade 11, integration calculus was also introduced and it went on to pretty advanced level by grade 12.

Calculus was also used in our Physics classes, so it was pretty much needed.

> try to teach a 3 month old how to walk

That's a ridiculous comparison.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#197

Post by pkaye »

TimTheTinker wrote: post #64
WillPostForFood wrote: post #5

It’s the official shift from “we can lift everyone up” to “we need to hold everyone down”. It wasn’t that long ago the California was touting the success of Algebra for everyone in 8th grade.

This "single standard" to me is like outlawing adjustable seats in cars. In the UK, they start separating students into separate tracks around 8th grade. Some will excel in math and science, so give them the opportunity to really go for it and take hard classes. Others will excel in other areas. But if everyone is lumped together in the same bucket and forced into the same mold, the average student's highest level of…

We used to have an accelerated/gifted track in US to take more advanced courses. One got evaluated around 7th grade to make that decision. The difference in skill level was huge because the final year I took it easy and did the regular courses and it was basically a cakewalk.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#198

Post by zeruch »

This is stupid.

In the 80s it was not uncommon (at least in the Jesuit schools I attended) that Algebraic concepts would be introduced to students at early as 5th grade, but definitely by junior high (7th/8th) and while I hated math (especially at the time) it wasn't something I thought I needed to be older to grok...I needed less psychotic, rigid teaching from nuns with all the compassion of Stalin, and more guidance, which other students in similar schools got in spades and had no issue with.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#199

Post by dkhenry »

csa wrote: post #158
nostrademons wrote: post #130

The irony is that this is probably going to exacerbate social injustice. Cupertino kids are going to be taking extracurricular math through RSM or Kumon in elementary school, and then the Cupertino school district (in the article) says that they have no intention to comply with the recommendations. SF kids aren't going to be exposed to algebra until 9th grade and then get a rude awakening in college when they realize…

> Not a huge leap from there to the concept of equations, inverse operations, and solving for unknowns. Unfortunately, for a child it typically is a huge leap. There are certain abstractions that young children simply cannot do. The ability to do certain abstractions is distributed along a bell curve (edit: of age), and maybe your child is on the very far left of that curve, but most kids won’t be able to handle the…

The only thing distributed along the bell curve is adults who are willing to help the kids. Yes for some kids it will come pretty easy, even at very young ages, but even very young children can learn these concepts if you would just spend some time teaching it to them.

When you have a system set up to force one adult to teach 30+ children you will never be able to spend the time required to ensure everyone gets the concept, but that neglect comes at the cost of compressing the learning in later years which still only benefits those who have high aptitude. Which is exactly why they are pushing it back further, not because it will help kids learn more, but because more children will have the ability to learn it without much interaction from an instructor.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#200

Post by carabiner »

holonomically wrote: post #7

I was doing algebra and Russian math word problems in 4th grade (maybe earlier, it's been a while). What exactly is the logic of pushing back mathematical training to later grades? [1] 1: https://www.edhelper.com/geography/Russia_Math1.htm

Good for you. I met kids in 4th grade who struggled with their multiplication tables. What do you do for them?
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