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The Tinkerbell Griftopia

stephendiehl.com

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Re: The Tinkerbell Griftopia

#191

Post by fredfoobar »

VHRanger wrote: post #166
casi18 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

his company makes the closed source financial infrastructure for digitising cash for multinational corporations, that is made useless by crypto becoming popular. of course he doesnt mention this when writing hit pieces on crypto culture. https://twitter.com/TBSocialist/status/1456963980577153026?s...

Uh, that's the worse citation source I've ever seen? It's a speculative twitter post? Also, what you said is like saying someone working at Stripe felt threatened by crypto. He's still not selling you a product (anywhere I can find in his online presence!) A full decade later, crypto still isn't used for payments except in PR puff pieces, like the El Salvador fiasco. No one working in serious online payments feels th…

Why is El Salvador a "fiasco"?

Re: The Tinkerbell Griftopia

#192

Post by neilk »

iskander wrote: post #72
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But, the main force for a return to decentralization is in crypto The more I watch this space, the more I realize that many of these projects are just an excuse to flip novel tokens for a quick profit. We reached the point where there are enough blockchains and crypto tokens for almost every conceivable purpose. At this point, many of the new entrants feel like they’re just arbitrarily bolting new coins and new tok…

I think you have to participate a bit in the non-speculative side to get a feel for the culture and social movement that's brewing there. New entrants aren't the ones to watch since they're probably jumping in to make money, look to the increasing interest in DAOs as social coordination mechanisms, they will keep evolving to empower groups of individuals to have outsized impacts.

What are some non-speculative places where one can get into this?

Re: The Tinkerbell Griftopia

#193

Post by iskander »

easrng wrote: post #188
iskander wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's easy to miss the content at the core of the movement given how thoroughly it's wrapped in gold rush and scamming. But the more time I spend around the space the more it seems that there is a legitimately transformative force which attracts the gold rush in the first place. And the ethos of people working on e.g. research DAOs, decentralized publishing, crypto art, &c feels right compared to the web2 worl…

> But the more time I spend around the space ... The more you get sucked in to the reality distortion field. I've been there, get out.

Nah, I kinda like it. It's a very idealistic and optimistic space with a vision for creating a commons that's not owned by any one commercial entity. The scams will drop away when the current bubble bursts but the web3 culture + tech are probably here to stay.

Re: The Tinkerbell Griftopia

#194

Post by Vetch »

egypturnash wrote: post #61
danielvf wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open source funding hits art. Anyone can view it and get the benefit of doing so, the artist got paid to create, somebody gets bragging rights. Everybody wins.

Everybody wins except for the part where a bunch of people wasted a bunch of energy competing to be the one whose computer confirmed the financial transaction in an absurdly inefficient distributed database. Patreon's been solving the problem of "open source funding" for about a decade without that part.

> in an absurdly inefficient distributed database

Suppose you wanted a distributed system where arbitrary nodes can enter without vetting. You'd need to be robust to adversarial nodes that lie and collude. Distributed consensus under asynchrony and adversaries seriously ramps up the difficulty of already challenging problems typically solved by Paxos derived algorithms. The first moderately scalable solution to consensus within such a hostile environment and with relatively few moving parts was built on a proof of work scheme inspired by hashcash. It's not inefficient, it's just a complex domain.

It should be noted that NFTs run on Ethereum which has been in the process of moving to the vastly more efficient proof of stake scheme.

> Patreon's been solving the problem of "open source funding" for about a decade without that part.

There are a number of developing nations whose citizens cannot participate on Patreon. For others, there are workarounds that involve hurdles like navigating providers with worse customer service rep than paypal, giving out sensitive identification, high fees, high withdrawal friction and chaining various third parties who themselves might disappear or be indirectly connected to fraudulent banks.

Re: The Tinkerbell Griftopia

#195

Post by mleonhard »

rodiger wrote: post #173
mleonhard wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any technological progress obtained from cryptocurrency research will be the most expensive progress ever purchased in human history. The costs come from: - Opportunity cost of having lots of smart people focusing on cryptocurrency who could have been researching medicine, clean energy, or space tech. - Money spent on manufacturing and maintaining the cryptocurrency mining equipment. Those factories could be making o…

Many people in the world don't have access to a functioning financial system- what's the benefit in building one?

Private companies already build functioning financial systems cheaply. Many companies in developing countries have deployed electronic payments that work on cheap feature phones via SMS and WAP. They have massive adoption by the unbanked. None of these systems use cryptocurrency.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-Pesa

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_banking#Mobile_banking_...

Re: The Tinkerbell Griftopia

#196

Post by jjulius »

darawk wrote: post #108
NikolaeVarius wrote: post #7

Anyway here you go https://thenftbay.org/description.html https://thenftbay.org/ You can have all the NFTs in existence without having to wear out your right click button. We can all be "rich"

https://www.moma.org/collection/works/79802 MOMA is going to be so mad when they find out Starry Night is worthless now.

You're talking about a piece of art that exists on a canvas, with its own bumps/grooves, versus a photo/scan of that art. There is still only one Starry Night in it's exact, original form despite us being able to pull it up on Google Images. It will age, and change with age.

A .jpg NFT can literally be saved/copied in it's exact original form an infinite number of times.

Re: The Tinkerbell Griftopia

#197

Post by fredfoobar »

VHRanger wrote: post #139
fredfoobar wrote: post #93

The thing is, there isn't a bigger grifter than Stephen Diehl.

I dont see him selling anything You can just admit you dont like that he casts shade on stuff you like

He is doing these takedowns in an attempt to help his company. Someone else is probably "selling" his company's services.

If people complain about crypto folks "talking their book", then the anti-crypto folks are also guilty of the same if their line of work is threatened by crypto.

If your grievance revolves around "bad things" happening in a new space, therefore new space is bad, I can't take you seriously, I will be suspicious. That's like saying early internet was mainly used for pornography and other illegal stuff.

Re: The Tinkerbell Griftopia

#198

Post by Cederfjard »

iskander wrote: post #177
Cederfjard wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what is it really that they own? Bragging rights, that they paid for the artist to proclaim them the first (or subsequent) person to own a hash on one of multiple blockchains, that contains a link pointing to an image file of an artwork hosted on a CDN? And the artist can create infinitely more? And the image file might be taken down at any time? And while you can trace the provenance on the blockchain easily eno…

A provenance certificate which is socially interpreted as ownership. Not going to argue whether that's a good or durable interpretation of ownership, just attesting that some people really do feel it.

I hear you. I expect the bottom to fall out of this, abruptly and fairly soon. But we’ll see.

Re: The Tinkerbell Griftopia

#199

Post by VHRanger »

fredfoobar wrote: post #191
VHRanger wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, that's the worse citation source I've ever seen? It's a speculative twitter post? Also, what you said is like saying someone working at Stripe felt threatened by crypto. He's still not selling you a product (anywhere I can find in his online presence!) A full decade later, crypto still isn't used for payments except in PR puff pieces, like the El Salvador fiasco. No one working in serious online payments feels th…

Why is El Salvador a "fiasco"?

https://www.laprensagrafica.com/elsalvador/Uso-de-bitcoin-cu...

- First time large protests happened against Bukele in light of this law

- Adoption is low

- DUI fraud is through the roof

Re: The Tinkerbell Griftopia

#200

Post by burnished »

015a wrote: post #186
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But, the main force for a return to decentralization is in crypto The more I watch this space, the more I realize that many of these projects are just an excuse to flip novel tokens for a quick profit. We reached the point where there are enough blockchains and crypto tokens for almost every conceivable purpose. At this point, many of the new entrants feel like they’re just arbitrarily bolting new coins and new tok…

> What’s stopping any of these companies from simply buying 51% of the tokens to a decentralized DAO, for example? Smaller coins, sure. Its a legitimate concern. But it becomes far harder as coins get bigger. Up to a local maxima of general global use and investment. Even harder as companies compete against one-another to do the same thing. What's stopping Chase Bank from buying up tons of coins and mining power to c…

Whats the distribution of mining power in the bitcoin network right now? Like, what % of the total are the top ten groups?
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