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Without parental leave I might be dead

nytimes.com

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Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#191

Post by sofixa »

bradleyjg wrote: post #187
sofixa wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you fix those three, no parental leave is barbaric.

Is this kind of thing supposed to persuasive? You’ve presented no argument whatsoever. Is the idea that if use an emotionally laden term like “barbaric” you think it will browbeat people into falling into line with your opinion?

It was meant to illustrate that we're talking about separate things. "Fixing" three things getting more expensive doesn't in any way negate the barbarism that is no parental leave. Even if you think that them getting cheaper will mean the return of a stay at home parent (assuming they actually want it), it's still barbaric not to give the other parent an opportunity to spend time and help with the infant.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#192

Post by sershe »

pc86 wrote: post #174
sershe wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't start with the right premise. An employee might be frazzled after a night of partying but nobody advocates for "hangover leave"... I don't understand what the point is in society indulging and encouraging somebody's child-rearing hobby when it doesn't need population growth; moreover given the carbon impact of a first world child and potential supply of immigrants willing to move here, it might want to a…

For the record, I only downvoted after I read the smug self-satisfied edit, and only then because discussing your fake internet points is exceedingly boring (not to mention violates the site guidelines).

I don't refer to downvotes because of the internet points at all, only as a method of disagreeing.

[This is all for before-the-edit] According to (or at least in the spirit) of guidelines, downvoting is not for the comments that you disagree with, it's for comments that don't contribute or make a point in the discussion. So, reddit-style passive-aggressive downvoting (again, before the meta-edit) really ticks me off. If you have something of substance to say, respond. Otherwise, what are you trying to do?

The reason is I'm smug is in fact, yes, I think less of someone silently downvoting-as-disagreeing, as a discussion participant, than I would of someone who would have insulted me in all caps. At least the latter person stands by their potentially-unjustified position in person ;)

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#193

Post by dang »

sershe wrote: post #168
KaiserPro wrote: post #28

I really cant understand the logic of forcing women back into work after 2-4 weeks. Its just not beneficial for anyone. The mum is utterly frazzled. The employer gets half an employee back Society is conditioned to think that the only practical way to raise a baby is to give up on work/get live in care. now, to look at it from a "my mum managed, I don't want to undermine the american nuclear family" point of view: Ye…

That doesn't start with the right premise. An employee might be frazzled after a night of partying but nobody advocates for "hangover leave"... I don't understand what the point is in society indulging and encouraging somebody's child-rearing hobby when it doesn't need population growth; moreover given the carbon impact of a first world child and potential supply of immigrants willing to move here, it might want to a…

Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar.

Please also don't break the site guidelines by going on about downvotes and certainly not by getting nasty about them. Your comment was correctly downvoted because it was a major step further into flamewar.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#194

Post by tomp »

KaiserPro wrote: post #28

I really cant understand the logic of forcing women back into work after 2-4 weeks. Its just not beneficial for anyone. The mum is utterly frazzled. The employer gets half an employee back Society is conditioned to think that the only practical way to raise a baby is to give up on work/get live in care. now, to look at it from a "my mum managed, I don't want to undermine the american nuclear family" point of view: Ye…

You're free to move to Europe, earn 3x less, and get 1-2 years parental leave (actually not just for mothers in some countries!)

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#195

Post by jbreiding »

refurb wrote: post #150
KaiserPro wrote: post #28

I really cant understand the logic of forcing women back into work after 2-4 weeks. Its just not beneficial for anyone. The mum is utterly frazzled. The employer gets half an employee back Society is conditioned to think that the only practical way to raise a baby is to give up on work/get live in care. now, to look at it from a "my mum managed, I don't want to undermine the american nuclear family" point of view: Ye…

As a parent who got 6 months that barely fucking scratches the surface of the time it take to raise a human. Subsidize me until they are in public school and I’ll high five you.

I would argue we just need to bring public school earlier.

We don’t need this tied to an employer like health insurance as this is something that benefits us all.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#196

Post by acdha »

tomp wrote: post #194
KaiserPro wrote: post #28

I really cant understand the logic of forcing women back into work after 2-4 weeks. Its just not beneficial for anyone. The mum is utterly frazzled. The employer gets half an employee back Society is conditioned to think that the only practical way to raise a baby is to give up on work/get live in care. now, to look at it from a "my mum managed, I don't want to undermine the american nuclear family" point of view: Ye…

You're free to move to Europe, earn 3x less, and get 1-2 years parental leave (actually not just for mothers in some countries!)

This isn't practical advice for most people and a significant fraction of the people affected are not looking at anything like a 3x pay cut, especially when you factor in the significantly greater amount we pay for healthcare, which parents will likely use more than they previously did.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#197

Post by sershe »

dang wrote: post #193
sershe wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't start with the right premise. An employee might be frazzled after a night of partying but nobody advocates for "hangover leave"... I don't understand what the point is in society indulging and encouraging somebody's child-rearing hobby when it doesn't need population growth; moreover given the carbon impact of a first world child and potential supply of immigrants willing to move here, it might want to a…

Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar. Please also don't break the site guidelines by going on about downvotes and certainly not by getting nasty about them. Your comment was correctly downvoted because it was a major step further into flamewar. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Ok, I admit the edit could have been done better. I'll stop pursuing this path :).

However, it was downvoted before the edit for expressing an unpopular, but IMHO factually justified (i.e. anti-natalist) position. I think that was a fair point to make in a discussion of paid parental leave. Again, I don't care about points. I want to hear from people who disagree with the original comment ;)

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#198

Post by mattferderer »

refurb wrote: post #150
KaiserPro wrote: post #28

I really cant understand the logic of forcing women back into work after 2-4 weeks. Its just not beneficial for anyone. The mum is utterly frazzled. The employer gets half an employee back Society is conditioned to think that the only practical way to raise a baby is to give up on work/get live in care. now, to look at it from a "my mum managed, I don't want to undermine the american nuclear family" point of view: Ye…

As a parent who got 6 months that barely fucking scratches the surface of the time it take to raise a human. Subsidize me until they are in public school and I’ll high five you.

I would suggest a compromise of "until they have all of their primary teeth". There is no sleep until all those **** are in.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#199

Post by er4hn »

KaiserPro wrote: post #111
bko wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Given that _every_ other "civilised" country has some sort of rudimentary care for new parents, which doesn't acutally cost that much, I can't see any reasonable objection to not having it. Giving a special benefit that will for the most part only be exercised by women discourages hiring women. You can still think its worth it, but don't pretend like you're baffled by anyone who would object or question how this im…

So UK maternity leave is shared. Its a year with 6 months "pay" How its taken is up to the parents. The people that I know who've taken it have split it fairly evenly. (I know I know sample size.) I did not take any, as I was not eligible at the time. As someone who does a lot of recruiting, I don't think "hmm I'm going to have to pay this woman for mat leave" because frankly that's bollocks, who knows who's going to…

> also being a parent in tech allows people to deal much better with the toddler tantrums/playground fights that seem to be common in this industry.

An insight that comes from a place of being forced to be more mature yourself. Well said!

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#200

Post by kayodelycaon »

pc86 wrote: post #176
helloworld11 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without knowing your company in detail, based on what you describe and general business practices, I'd be willing to bet that they'd fire you in no time if you ever stopped providing value for them. So why be loyal at all? 8 weeks is crumbs, and you even had to fight for that. I mean if you've been a solid employee for X years, briefly asking for a bit of time off for a life changing event should be absolutely fine,…

It's a business relationship so I don't see why "they'd fire you in no time if you stopped providing value" is always thrown around as a negative. Of course that's the case. You'd stopped working in no time if they stopped providing value to you too. As it should be, from both sides. You can have loyalty and still understand that there's a social/informal contract in place (and maybe a formal one in some places).

You'll think very differently the moment you get a disability and people think you are no longer providing sufficient value to society.
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