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When “Foundation” Gets the Blockbuster Treatment, Asimov’s Vision Gets Lost

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191–200 of 498 posts

Re: When “Foundation” Gets the Blockbuster Treatment, Asimov’s Vision Gets Lost

#191

Unpopular opinion: Foundation, as written, would probably be very niche TV. A straightforward adaptation would be terrible, albeit interesting if seasons were launched in the order of the books the way Asimov fused his Robots, Empire, and Foundation series. Even then, you can get away with a lot less detail in a book than you can with a TV series - you need to flesh out cultures and characters that, in a book, you ca…

That belief is not incompatible with a blockbuster version of it being shit.

Re: When “Foundation” Gets the Blockbuster Treatment, Asimov’s Vision Gets Lost

#192

The economist Paul Krugman of all people wrote a 'review' of Foundation versus Dune : > “Foundation” might seem unfilmable. It mostly involves people talking, and its narrative inverts the hero-saves-the-universe theme that burns many acres of CGI every year. The story spans centuries; in each episode everything appears to be on the brink, and it seems as if only desperate efforts by the protagonists can save the day…

I love that Paul Krugman implies that Foundation copied Star Wars. (Ie Foundation was the original Empire Space Opera from which many Sci Fi authors cribbed including George Lucas)

Nope. Foundation was first published in 1942, and is something of an alternate take on the Space Opera w Evil Empire genre, which came earlier, with the first prominent example being E.E. "Doc" Smith's Galactic Patrol in 1934. Smith previously wrote the Skylark series of space opera stories, first published in 1928.

And while not identical, Smith's Lensmen and Lucas' Jedi Knights have a great deal in common.

Re: When “Foundation” Gets the Blockbuster Treatment, Asimov’s Vision Gets Lost

#193

The economist Paul Krugman of all people wrote a 'review' of Foundation versus Dune : > “Foundation” might seem unfilmable. It mostly involves people talking, and its narrative inverts the hero-saves-the-universe theme that burns many acres of CGI every year. The story spans centuries; in each episode everything appears to be on the brink, and it seems as if only desperate efforts by the protagonists can save the day…

I love that Paul Krugman implies that Foundation copied Star Wars. (Ie Foundation was the original Empire Space Opera from which many Sci Fi authors cribbed including George Lucas)

Is it? There was a lot of space opera and space adventure and space imperialism in the 1940s and 50s. Claiming to be the original is a big claim.

Mind you, Lucas cribbed from everything in sight; samurai movies (Hidden Fortress), Westerns, war films (the trench run is from 633 Squadron). Partly why it was so successful.

Re: When “Foundation” Gets the Blockbuster Treatment, Asimov’s Vision Gets Lost

#194

There are a lot of people really hating on the TV show here, so I’ll offer a slightly contrarian take: I would say the biggest problem is the marketing that implies they faithfully are telling the books, when they’re not. The TV show is not faithful to the books. That said: the books are fascinating, but they are almost more like historical documentaries then narrative fiction. It works well because they are _short_…

I never read Foundation, so maybe that's why I like the show so much.

The ideas are all new to me and I have no idea where the story is going.

Re: When “Foundation” Gets the Blockbuster Treatment, Asimov’s Vision Gets Lost

#195

Man, reading through this thread, I feel like such an odd man out. I'm enjoying Foundation. Sure, it's not amazingly intellectually stimulating, and it's not really based on the books, but I find it fun to watch. As it's own thing, it's entertaining to me. I also really enjoyed The Flash (up until season 6 or so when it just got too repetitive). It seems like there's a lot of people that can't seem to enjoy things "j…

I’m enjoying it like I enjoyed Black Mirror. Science fiction is very hard to worldbuild right, so often the science minded audience has to turn a blind eye to a few things and think in terms of metaphors.

Humanity traveling faster than light? Check. Woman using stupid bras? Check. Radar that maps entire cave? Check. It doesn’t flag a creature 5m ahead? Check.

For many, these details are unbearable plot holes. Watching science fiction require you to be able to skip these and focus on the story (girl in love, sucking at survival sim).

Re: When “Foundation” Gets the Blockbuster Treatment, Asimov’s Vision Gets Lost

#196
The TV show is actually better than I expected, although after watching the trailers I had low expectations. I was totally prepared for the major surgery required to adapt a work like Foundation to the screen. However, I think my biggest problem with the show is a complete lack of subtlety that was present in the books.

In the books, the significance of the Vault is purely about ideas -- what its revelations mean for civilization. Whereas the showrunners needed to exaggerate its spectacle -- "You dumb TV watchers aren't going to get how important this is, so we have to shove it in your face. See? Giant floaty alien-looking thing? Must be important, right?"

Another example is how the decline of civilization isn't supposed to be obvious to the people living through it. At the time of the events of the first episode, the decline is supposed to be manifesting itself in extremely minor ways -- an extremely subtle "atmosphere of decay". Expressways aren't being maintained as well as they once were, and deployment of new elevator technology is held back by pessimism. People wouldn't have noticed these things any more than a Roman in 200 AD would have seen a crumbling road and caught a glimpse of the fall of Rome. But instead of showing the elevator industry resting on their laurels, the showrunners have to show a spectacular terrorist attack on a space elevator that kills 100 million people. "See! The empire is falling apart. Get it?"

The showrunners are trying to paint a picture with a paint sprayer instead of using fine brush strokes.

Re: When “Foundation” Gets the Blockbuster Treatment, Asimov’s Vision Gets Lost

#197
post #143

My greatest gripe with the show is that none of the writers seem to have any understanding of science, technology and have only a vague understanding of sociology, pretty much all of the main themes of the books. I actually liked the imperial cloning elements, as they fleshed out well an ossified society, but every other plotline seems to just happen because of pseudo-magic. I can only wish that the writer's room of…

> Writers today seem to not understand anymore how reality works, so they aren't able to extrapolate from it.

That's a quite accurate observation. Even for the largest budgets people tasked with story telling are almost always the weakest element. Who makes them? What kind of education do they undergo to be this wrong about reality and storytelling? Are they such small and in-bred group that they are all so wrong in such similar ways?

This reminds me of another weird thing. In games, various NPCs often say the same dialog line just in different voices. So the bottleneck is writing few words? Not hiring voice talent, not recording it in the studio and postprocessing it? But writing few unique words less is where you get your savings?

Re: When “Foundation” Gets the Blockbuster Treatment, Asimov’s Vision Gets Lost

#198

"Asimov's Vision". The guy himself has said in interviews that it was entirely inspired by gas/fluid dynamics theory, where you could predict the motion of the whole but individual molecules would be random, and then "what if that could be applied to people". Everything else is just exploring and extrapolating. It's far from perfect but I feel that if it was a new IP work the reaction to it would be very different. A…

Today, you could train such a "Physics Model" simply by having it crunch on FB or Google Data annonymized User Data. One could even apply social engineering models to that simulation and watch the outcome ahead of time. Sell it to politicians and 3 letter agencies and get yourselves a catchy name - like palantir and you are the future.

Re: When “Foundation” Gets the Blockbuster Treatment, Asimov’s Vision Gets Lost

#199
post #143

My greatest gripe with the show is that none of the writers seem to have any understanding of science, technology and have only a vague understanding of sociology, pretty much all of the main themes of the books. I actually liked the imperial cloning elements, as they fleshed out well an ossified society, but every other plotline seems to just happen because of pseudo-magic. I can only wish that the writer's room of…

I can usually forgive some tech contradiction details, but its really annoying when there is faster than light travel... But to create contrived suspense because no technology exists to make a flashlight strong enough to illuminate a cave for 10m ??!?!

The humble flashlight must be one of the most abused pieces of modern technology in fiction. According to video games, it doesn't matter what century you're in, it is impossible to create a flashlight that lasts for more than a few minutes, and only provides a feeble cone of barely-light for that time. According to science fiction, despite the fact ~98%+ of the people reading this literally have a flashlight in their pocket or equally available right now, they are rare things that you have to remember to take with you, and even if you do remember, they'd often be outshone by a 1970s campground flashlight.

Back here in the real world we have more light than we know what to do with. We have things that seem to light up the world accidentally, like the screen of our phones, better than flashlights can do the job in the future.

There's some other tropes where super-futuristic, sci-fi technology is noticeably worse than our real-world technology (weaponry in particular, most "ray guns" are noticeably inferior to real-world guns in almost every way except perhaps ammo capacity), but none I can think of where the every day experience of everybody now is so readily at-hand to know better.

Re: When “Foundation” Gets the Blockbuster Treatment, Asimov’s Vision Gets Lost

#200

No one learned anything from Game of Thrones. The show was absolutely amazing when it could follow the books. The definitive show everyone talked about. The moment the books ran out it started to go downhill. And when they couldn't easily extrapolate from the books the show fell apart completely. The showrunners and writes for the show weren't good enough to make Game of Thrones on their own. No offence, but that tak…

`No one learned anything from Game of Thrones.`

I actually find GoT later and dumber episodes most re-watchable. I imagine it is hard as hell to film shows that are both smart and cinematic. Nolan seems to be the only one who can consistently accomplish this

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