Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Decreasing service fees on subscriptions to 15%

android-developers.googleblog.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 250 posts

Re: Decreasing service fees on subscriptions to 15%

#191

Post by jiggunjer »

Denzel wrote: post #52
realusername wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want it one step further, it's not called "sideloading" but just "normal install", people should be able to install anything they want without some unwanted middleman, all the restrictions are just market distortions.

> people should be able to install anything they want without some unwanted middleman What “people” are you referring to? The millions of people, like yours truly, who’ve made the conscious decision to pay Apple because of their App Store model. I’m an engineer, I have a desktop and a laptop I can install whatever I want on. I’m ok with not doing that on my phone. In fact, I don’t want that experience on my phone. So…

he said "should be able to" not "must exclusively". Maybe you enjoy the limited offerings in the official store but that doesn't justify preventing the People (including you) from installing without the store.

Re: Decreasing service fees on subscriptions to 15%

#192

Post by oblio »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #174
heavyset_go wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

App developers already pay Apple $100 a year and, as someone in these comments calculated, that earns Apple $2 billion a year alone. Developers regularly need to buy Apple computers, tablets and phones that have 64% profit margins. Users are also buying those computers, tablets and phones that have 64% profit margins. > and an app store to help developers get customers. Apple strictly enforces limits and restrictions…

We’re discussing Google’s 15% cut of subscriptions purchased through the Google Play store. Google doesn’t require anyone to pay Apple $100/year, nor does Google require anyone to buy Apple hardware. So none of the costs you mention are relevant to the article we’re discussing. And Google doesn’t run ‘an exclusive mobile app repository’. A dozen or more of the apps on my mobile are installed from F-droid, and Google…

Google also makes money through ads, ads which you're guided to through control of the operating system (and browser).

It also makes money by providing their apps and services a front row seat in mobile marketing heaven, on prime screen real estate.

Let's not weep yet for Google's Android hardships.

Re: Decreasing service fees on subscriptions to 15%

#193

Post by oblio »

lobocinza wrote: post #182
RNCTX wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

15% is highway robbery. The cost via your own account on Stripe is 5% on the high end.

You pay for marketing.

Marketing what? Being in the app stores is a requirement to be alive these days, there are 0 discoverability benefits. Also, both Apple and Google sell app store app ads, double dipping on this source of income.

Re: Decreasing service fees on subscriptions to 15%

#194

Post by oblio »

concinds wrote: post #178
threeseed wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Given that so much of Apple's profits are from extortionate App Store fees Apple earns ~20% of their revenue from all their services not just App Store [1] Given they don't break out their App Store profit numbers I think you should provide your source. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/382260/segments-share-re...

I'm the OP and I just compared what Apple gets from the App Store (around $21.7m estimated in 2020 which I saw in Barron's, but it's probably an overestimation since I don't think it takes into account the 15% rate below $1m) to Apple's 2020 profits ($57.4m). It's really a back-of-napkin thing, just meant to show the similarity in scale, and how damaging it would be to companies if this revenue went away.

Both those numbers should be billions.

Re: Decreasing service fees on subscriptions to 15%

#195

Post by techpression »

heavyset_go wrote: post #166
dbt00 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of those platforms got big enough to deal with abuse and malware at an industrial scale.

Apt is one of the most used app distribution methods on Linux, and is what Maemo and Meego used. It was even ported to macOS as Fink and, before Homebrew was popular, millions of macOS users ran apt without being exposed to abuse or malware. Billions of machines run Linux using package managers like apt, and abuse and malware are minute. The App Store model is about profits, and security is an afterthought that makes…

Apt also only offers around 5% of the feature set that the App Store does, and to a scale that is minuscule in comparison at that.

Re: Decreasing service fees on subscriptions to 15%

#196

Post by keewee7 »

ComodoHacker wrote: post #187

>The vast majority of developers could distribute their apps on Google Play for free (currently 97% do so at no charge). For the developers who offered a paid app or sold in-app digital goods (currently just 3% of developers), the flat service fee was 30%. Do they mean only 3% of dev accounts who ever published something became sustained? Nice corp speak!

>Do they mean only 3% of dev accounts who ever published something became sustained?

It doesn't take much effort to make a dev account and publish Android apps. The vast majority of Android apps are free, ad supported, and made by hobbyists.

Re: Decreasing service fees on subscriptions to 15%

#197

Post by thow-58d4e8b »

threeseed wrote: post #172
paxys wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if cutting subscription fees on the Play Store forces Apple to cut their take on the App Store by half Will it though? Or will the fee just become another "premium" differentiator between the two? The average Android phone sells for $250, but that hasn't discouraged Apple from pricing iPhones at 3-5x that. Other than strong government regulation (or the threat of it), I don't see Apple ever willingly reducing the A…

Apple reduced their "App Store tax" in 2020 from 30% to 15% for small businesses i.e. the majority of app developers. https://www.apple.com/au/newsroom/2020/11/apple-announces-ap...

For the majority of app developers, but almost surely for a small minority of their app store revenue

Re: Decreasing service fees on subscriptions to 15%

#198

Post by kumarvvr »

concinds wrote: post #3

I don't see the point. Spotify's not willing to give up 10% of their Android revenue, they'll still use their own payment. Epic won't give up 15%. South Korea mandated that apps be allowed to have custom payment methods within apps. Why would any big company, whether Netflix, Epic or Spotify, still give Android 10%? It just seems that the "app store pay toll" is getting less and less justifiable; and it seems outrage…

Not everyone is as big as Spotify and the likes.

A lot of smaller developers would benefit from this. Hopefully, some of the savings are passed on to users.

Re: Decreasing service fees on subscriptions to 15%

#199

Post by realusername »

littlecranky67 wrote: post #53
realusername wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want it one step further, it's not called "sideloading" but just "normal install", people should be able to install anything they want without some unwanted middleman, all the restrictions are just market distortions.

Problem is we need an Appstore with enforcing rules nowadays to protect ourselves from greedy ruthless software makers. Just look at Windows - and ecosystem where Software mostly is installed outside of an Appstore. What major players in the Industry do now (Big players like Adobe but also other smaller shops) would have been considered malware/adware some 10 years ago. Stuff like uploading personal data, contents of…

The most secure medium currently is still the web, much more than any mobile app store, and it's an unmoderated & decentralised platform.

You should not buy their excuses about so-called security, it always has been about control.

Re: Decreasing service fees on subscriptions to 15%

#200

Post by realityking »

concinds wrote: post #178
threeseed wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Given that so much of Apple's profits are from extortionate App Store fees Apple earns ~20% of their revenue from all their services not just App Store [1] Given they don't break out their App Store profit numbers I think you should provide your source. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/382260/segments-share-re...

I'm the OP and I just compared what Apple gets from the App Store (around $21.7m estimated in 2020 which I saw in Barron's, but it's probably an overestimation since I don't think it takes into account the 15% rate below $1m) to Apple's 2020 profits ($57.4m). It's really a back-of-napkin thing, just meant to show the similarity in scale, and how damaging it would be to companies if this revenue went away.

That also ignores the cost of running the App Store. While certainly not costing 20 billion, storage, bandwidth, credit card fees, payout cost, tax handling (Apple takes care of VAT in Europe), app reviewers and engineering cost will add up.

The other thing I fee that‘s often overlooked is that paid app subsidize free apps.

Post reply on HN