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Call of Duty Adds Kernel Level Driver for Anti-Cheat

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Re: Call of Duty Adds Kernel Level Driver for Anti-Cheat

#191

Post by cortesoft »

xerxes901 wrote: post #186
cortesoft wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't they just have a special lobby for people who don't want to use anti-cheat? Protect the people who want to play fair games, and let the people who want to play with their friends and aren't worried about cheating (or hell, want to play with cheaters) play without anti-cheat? Seems like a win win?

Because the only people in this lobby will be cheaters lol. Most people don't care about running garbage-tier CoD kernel code on their machines... so I wind up having to because they do, because it's the default. Although I concede that basically what I'm asking for here is for the default to be _my_ usecase...

Well this guy only wants to play with friends, so he doesn’t care if everyone else in the lobby are cheaters. He isn’t playing with anyone besides his friends.

And why do you care if a lobby exists that you are never going to go to? Why does it bother you if cheaters want to use cheats against each other? As long as you don’t interact with them, I don’t understand why you would care.

Re: Call of Duty Adds Kernel Level Driver for Anti-Cheat

#192

Post by lifeformed »

temporarrry0923 wrote: post #116
foresto wrote: post #114

John McDonald did a talk at GDC 2018 about how Valve was starting to integrate deep learning into their server-side cheat detection. IIRC, some of the process was automated, some was player-reported, and some was done through human review. As a gamer averse to both cheating and spyware, I found this very appealing. I wonder how their systems have evolved since then. The original youtube clip (v=ObhK8lUfIlc) has been…

VACnet catches the spinbotters and aimbotters! Actually really good at it too; everyone who did that now just cheats less hard. The biggest problem was: It didn't auto ban, just sent to overwatch (players watch a past game and vote for cheater or not, fully anonymized). This resulted in a massive clog when some guys I knew generated around 10k free steam accounts (with $3.5 of proxies), began queueing a few dozen at…

Did you report this person? They ruin the game for everyone else.

Re: Call of Duty Adds Kernel Level Driver for Anti-Cheat

#193

Post by lifeformed »

DizzyDoo wrote: post #73
tpxl wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then there's PUBG (BattlEye) ruined by rampant cheating. Then there's EFT (BattlEye) ruined by rampant cheating. Then there's (was?) Combat Arms (multiple anti cheats over the years) ruined in-part by rampant cheating. I wouldn't mind _that_ much if anti-cheats actually helped, but they don't.

I'm still playing PUBG, though just FPP, and rarely run into what is obviously a cheater - maybe once every two months? But while things have got better, you're right, when things were really, really bad it hurt the game's community terribly. I do think that anti-cheat helps, if the developers are mostly engaged with it, but it's a long fight over a long time. Most of the strategies to do with 'ban waves' - ie, not b…

I play PUBG fpp in Asia servers and there's cheaters every game. I get like 3-4 successful ban reports every time I turn on the game.

Re: Call of Duty Adds Kernel Level Driver for Anti-Cheat

#194

Post by shadilay »

CodeArtisan wrote: post #147
Teknoman117 wrote: post #124

The most annoying one to me is that a bunch of these kernel mode anti-cheat systems also go after the VFIO gamers who don't want to run Windows on bare metal. They consider running Windows in a VM "cheating".

These anti cheats have no other choice than become more and more restrictive to the user. Cloud gaming for everyone coupled to a game controller relying on a secure cryptoprocessor may put a end to cheating in the large.

It won't. There are already people using AI image recognition running on a separate PC to aimbot.

Re: Call of Duty Adds Kernel Level Driver for Anti-Cheat

#195

Post by correct_horse »

lemoncookiechip wrote: post #150

While I don't particularly like this sort of anti-cheat, I think we should all be more worried about cloud gaming than anything else. It's been obvious for a while that the big gaming companies have it in mind, and the only reason it isn't as big as it could be, is due to tech limitations FOR NOW. When (not if) cloud gaming truly takes off, and it will, we'll lose any and all control over our games. So long to moddin…

Cloud gaming would lose practical consumers' control much more than Netflix did. At the very least, one could always point a video camera at the screen to copy video (suppose for one's own records). But with games, there is no chance to do anything like this. Netflix had an interactive Black Mirror episode called Bandersnatch(2018) that I speculated at the time was appealing from a business perspective because copying interactive content is much harder than straight video.

Re: Call of Duty Adds Kernel Level Driver for Anti-Cheat

#196

Post by foota »

cortesoft wrote: post #191
xerxes901 wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the only people in this lobby will be cheaters lol. Most people don't care about running garbage-tier CoD kernel code on their machines... so I wind up having to because they do, because it's the default. Although I concede that basically what I'm asking for here is for the default to be _my_ usecase...

Well this guy only wants to play with friends, so he doesn’t care if everyone else in the lobby are cheaters. He isn’t playing with anyone besides his friends. And why do you care if a lobby exists that you are never going to go to? Why does it bother you if cheaters want to use cheats against each other? As long as you don’t interact with them, I don’t understand why you would care.

You may not have played in a lobby with cheaters, but they ruin the game for anyone else there. Warzone matchmakes you with ~a hundred people, so you can't play with just your friends, so if you have an anti-cheat off lobby your game will be ruined.

Re: Call of Duty Adds Kernel Level Driver for Anti-Cheat

#198

Post by leshow »

everdrive wrote: post #84

If this happens enough, then a Windows gaming PC becomes a very expensive console. If all I do on my PC is game, then it doesn't really matter if it's got a rootkit (or kernel-level anti-cheat driver) or not. But, that's an expensive console. $600 - $2,000, depending on how nicely you want to game. A lot of the big popular online game culture really isn't fun anyway, so I'm not sure it's much of a loss.

2k will barely get a decent video card these days, cards aren't selling at MSRP

Re: Call of Duty Adds Kernel Level Driver for Anti-Cheat

#199

Post by ThatPlayer »

cortesoft wrote: post #181
cletus wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a high-level gameplay problem. I'm not sure what you play but in (CoD) Warzone, for example, just based on Twitch streams at least, almost every lobby has one or more cheaters/hackers in it now. This is a bad enough problem that it actually threatens the integrity of the game and the continued support from more casual gamers such as yourself. As for your particular case (running a Windows VM with PCI-e GPU…

Why don't they just have a special lobby for people who don't want to use anti-cheat? Protect the people who want to play fair games, and let the people who want to play with their friends and aren't worried about cheating (or hell, want to play with cheaters) play without anti-cheat? Seems like a win win?

CS:GO can already do this. You can start a server with VAC (Valve Anti Cheat) disabled.

Re: Call of Duty Adds Kernel Level Driver for Anti-Cheat

#200

Post by xkfm »

xerxes901 wrote: post #184
cletus wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a high-level gameplay problem. I'm not sure what you play but in (CoD) Warzone, for example, just based on Twitch streams at least, almost every lobby has one or more cheaters/hackers in it now. This is a bad enough problem that it actually threatens the integrity of the game and the continued support from more casual gamers such as yourself. As for your particular case (running a Windows VM with PCI-e GPU…

I think my suggestion handles this situation though. If the cheaters are playing well enough that you can identify them as cheaters, then they would be getting flagged by my hypothetical server-side anticheat as "good" and so need to run the client-side software too. Also I don't think "twitch streams" are a great sample of "normal level gameplay", most people there would be ranked comparatively highly in MMR I would…

For warzone, I don't believe that game has any sort of MMR, so the situation is a little different there compared to most other games people stream on twitch. Warzone seems to be especially bad, even when compared with other games in it's genre.

There's also another issue where some people play with devices like Cronus which are borderline cheats and essentially hardware scripts (better/no recoil control, scripted bunny hopping, that sort of thing).

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