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Warren Buffett: Stop coddling the super rich

nytimes.com

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Re: Warren Buffett: Stop coddling the super rich

#191

Post by shmulkey18 »

orijing wrote: post #176

All of the comments here attacking Warren Buffett's authenticity, suggesting that he should put his money where his mouth is and write the Treasury a big fat check, are missing the whole point. Services provided by the government are public goods. It's blindingly obvious that a single person cannot pay for those public goods. Just Buffett's own contributions, no matter how much he donates, will not be enough to solve…

"It's blindingly obvious that a single person cannot pay for those public goods." ... "It's called shared sacrifice because it's meaningless unless everyone participates."

Huh? By this logic, taxes are "meaningless" unless everyone pays taxes. However, many poor and lower-income people do not pay income taxes. Does that render the income tax "meaningless"?

Also, the claim that it's "like the neighborhood park... [e]veryone wants one, but no one wants to pay for it" is absurd. We see many examples of charitable contributions made by the rich and the middle class which are used to purchase public goods such as museums, nature preserves and the like.

When push comes to shove, what Buffet really wants -- and what you are advocating when you say that no matter how much money he donates, it "will not be enough to solve our budget issues" -- is an increase in the size of government fueled by higher taxes, rather than a diminution of its scope by reducing the funds made available to it.

A bigger government benefits crony capitalists like Buffet, because they have sufficient power and influence to ensure that the goodies that can be redistributed by the Leviathan are steered their way. I wish Buffet would be honest enough to say that, rather than bloviating about how terrible it is that he doesn't pay enough taxes when he is unwilling to take the obvious direct action necessary to rectify that unfortunate situation.

Re: Warren Buffett: Stop coddling the super rich

#192

Post by scottjad »

DenisM wrote: post #170
scottjad wrote: post #132

Warren is omitting very crucial information and knowingly deceiving most people. He's pretending he doesn't pay very many taxes, but he does, he just pays different taxes. In this article he mentions capital gains, income, and payroll taxes but does not mention corporate income taxes. Corporate income taxes are taxes on the owners of corporations. I don't know exactly how much he paid, but some quick math I'd guess h…

Corporate income taxes are taxes on the owners of corporations. Well, no.

Well, thank you for your informative response.

Without a corporate income tax owners can withdraw the incomes minus dividend taxes. With corporate income tax they can withdraw income minus corporate income tax minus dividend taxes. How can you say they're not the ones paying the tax when the money could go directly in their pockets if not for the tax?

Re: Warren Buffett: Stop coddling the super rich

#193

Post by 2arrs2ells »

cop359 wrote: post #189
Locke1689 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a logical fallacy to equate the statement "I believe the rich should be obligated to pay more in taxes" to "I believe I alone should pay more in taxes."

How is it a logical fallacy? If believe A should B I am A Therefore I believe I should B. A = rich people B = pay more taxes

Because you are ignoring the "alone" part.

Re: Warren Buffett: Stop coddling the super rich

#194

Post by Umofomia »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #166
kenjackson wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love the lies with statistics. "We already lean quite heavily on the top 1% - the top 1% actually pays more in taxes than the bottom 90%." The chart of course only shows federal income tax. What about federal payroll? What about excise taxes? And at the state and local levels, what about sales taxes? Here's a much better link: http://www.wweek.com/portland/article-17350-9_things_the_ric... From this article you'll…

If you have data showing that including payroll or state taxes change this picture, feel free to post it. I gave the best data I have access to.

The link that he gave already adjusts the numbers for payroll taxes (but it's obvious from looking at how the tax is collected that it's regressive -- i.e., flat rate up to $106k and then no tax on wages above that).

With regard to state taxes, this report gives a pretty thorough analysis for all 50 states: http://www.itepnet.org/state_reports/whopays.php

It's pretty evident from the data in this report that state taxes are very regressive in most states, mostly due to sales taxes.

Re: Warren Buffett: Stop coddling the super rich

#195

Post by urbanjunkie »

bgentry wrote: post #160
reader2000 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop spreading lies - it's incomplete data! Do you work at FOX News or something? It’s true that the top 1 percent of wage earners paid 38 percent of the federal income taxes in 2008. But people forget that the income tax is less than half of federal taxes and only one-fifth of taxes at all levels of government. Social Security, Medicare and unemployment insurance taxes (known as payroll taxes) are paid mostly by the…

Do you work at FOX News or something? Unnecessarily inflammatory remark.

Not really, yummyfajitas is guilty of intellectual dishonesty, so this seems like quite a pertinent response.

Re: Warren Buffett: Stop coddling the super rich

#196

Post by scottjad »

shmulkey18 wrote: post #191
orijing wrote: post #176

All of the comments here attacking Warren Buffett's authenticity, suggesting that he should put his money where his mouth is and write the Treasury a big fat check, are missing the whole point. Services provided by the government are public goods. It's blindingly obvious that a single person cannot pay for those public goods. Just Buffett's own contributions, no matter how much he donates, will not be enough to solve…

"It's blindingly obvious that a single person cannot pay for those public goods." ... "It's called shared sacrifice because it's meaningless unless everyone participates." Huh? By this logic, taxes are "meaningless" unless everyone pays taxes. However, many poor and lower-income people do not pay income taxes. Does that render the income tax "meaningless"? Also, the claim that it's "like the neighborhood park... [e]v…

> many poor and lower-income people do not pay income taxes.

And many middle-income people. ~45% of US households pay no federal income tax.

Re: Warren Buffett: Stop coddling the super rich

#197

Post by callmeed »

eftpotrm wrote: post #187
jquery wrote: post #182

Notice that Warren Buffett is asking for tax increases on those who make more than $1M and $10M respectively. I'm fine with this. He seems to "get", unlike so many Democrats, that $250k/year is not rich. Where I get nervous is all the Democrats who seem to think that there is no difference between $250k and $1M/year and up. I get kind of ill seeing obscenely wealthy Democrats in Congress, almost all making MUCH more…

While I agree there's a big distinction between someone earning $250k/year and $10m/year, are you aware that if your family is earning that much then you're earning over eight times the median household income?

You're wrong. First, the median income in the US is now at or slightly above $50K per year.

Second, assuming earned income (which is fair even for $250k earners), a median income household will be in either a 15% or 25% tax bracket (depending on if married). A $250k household will be in a 33% tax bracket.

Re: Warren Buffett: Stop coddling the super rich

#198

Post by jmvoodoo »

shmulkey18 wrote: post #191
orijing wrote: post #176

All of the comments here attacking Warren Buffett's authenticity, suggesting that he should put his money where his mouth is and write the Treasury a big fat check, are missing the whole point. Services provided by the government are public goods. It's blindingly obvious that a single person cannot pay for those public goods. Just Buffett's own contributions, no matter how much he donates, will not be enough to solve…

"It's blindingly obvious that a single person cannot pay for those public goods." ... "It's called shared sacrifice because it's meaningless unless everyone participates." Huh? By this logic, taxes are "meaningless" unless everyone pays taxes. However, many poor and lower-income people do not pay income taxes. Does that render the income tax "meaningless"? Also, the claim that it's "like the neighborhood park... [e]v…

You have so completely missed the point I'm not sure it's worth arguing with you, but imagine for a moment that the additional revenue from closing loopholes on the rich was used to lower payroll taxes on the average working man, lowering the cost of employment...

Re: Warren Buffett: Stop coddling the super rich

#199

Post by chibea »

cop359 wrote: post #189
Locke1689 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a logical fallacy to equate the statement "I believe the rich should be obligated to pay more in taxes" to "I believe I alone should pay more in taxes."

How is it a logical fallacy? If believe A should B I am A Therefore I believe I should B. A = rich people B = pay more taxes

That's implication not equation.

Re: Warren Buffett: Stop coddling the super rich

#200

Post by tomjen3 »

keithnoizu wrote: post #169
tomjen3 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More is not a relative term. And no I am not talking utility, but cold hard cash numbers.

And i'm talking percentage of income and percentage of income after deducting cost of living.

That is a stupid way to measure how much one should pay in tax, honestly.

You rent, electricity, food and clothing doesn't go up because you double your income (unless you move, but then you presumably get better housing too). Why should your tax?

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