Covid lesson: trust the public with hard truths • Hacker News Board

Re: Covid lesson: trust the public with hard truths

#191

Post by jallen_dot_dev » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 5:49 PM UTC

belltaco wrote: post #128

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion the biggest example of this was the poor mask guidance early on in the pandemic that was subsequently reversed. Zeynep Tufekci had a very good piece in the NYT on this: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/opinion/coronavirus-face-... The real fear was that there would be a run on masks by the public, making them unavailable for hospital use. Also, at the time, there wasn't clear evidence of the effective…

Edit: Everytime I point this out, I get hit by multiple downvotes That's a pretty poor example since people had already decided covid wasn't even as dangerous as the flu. The recipient of the highest civilian award in the US said this to his 15 million audience. >"It looks like the coronavirus is being weaponized as yet another element to bring down Donald Trump," Limbaugh said Feb. 24 on his radio show. "Now, I want…

I'm not sure how your examples counter what the gp is saying. Are you suggesting that the government didn't need to lie about mask effectiveness because some people weren't taking COVID seriously? Because obviously enough people took it seriously to cause a mask shortage anyway.

Re: Covid lesson: trust the public with hard truths

#192

Post by twofornone » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 5:50 PM UTC

r00fus wrote: post #88

The lede is buried here, the reason the US is not cohesive is entirely due to the former president who continues to this day to support and spur the anti-vax movement.

No, the US is not cohesive on this subject partly because of dishonest rhetorical tricks, like deliberately conflating hesitancy about this specific vaccine with the "anti-vax movement". And implying that trump disparaged his own Operation Warp Speed. And ignoring that under Trump media was releasing surveys and implying that most people were hesitant about an emergency vaccine approval from the Trump administration, looking for any opportunity to disparage the orange man.

This country is not cohesive because of such rabid, top down left leaning bias in our media, industry, and academia, which stereotypes, belittles, and alienates about 50% of the population.

Re: Covid lesson: trust the public with hard truths

#193

Post by EamonnMR » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 5:51 PM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #82

colordrops wrote: post #10

The article is discussing the media and government being intentionally vague or even misinformative because they don't trust the public, but it backfires and causes more distrust. The flip side that wasn't discussed is the belittling and censoring of voices that were skeptical of the narratives, which engendered even more distrust. Their strategy of information control backfired, and they doubled down. Now we've got…

In my opinion the biggest example of this was the poor mask guidance early on in the pandemic that was subsequently reversed. Zeynep Tufekci had a very good piece in the NYT on this: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/opinion/coronavirus-face-... The real fear was that there would be a run on masks by the public, making them unavailable for hospital use. Also, at the time, there wasn't clear evidence of the effective…

I really think this will go down as The Big Mistake that lost the public's trust in the US and made compliance for every subsequent measure difficult to sell, and opened the door to nutters.

Re: Covid lesson: trust the public with hard truths

#194

Post by Pxtl » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 5:53 PM UTC

Gortal278 wrote: post #35

wonderwonder wrote: post #26

The author is completely right in that the government at least in the US attempting to downplay, mislead or 'avoid panic' absolutely destroyed any credibility and is still suffering from it. Most people are not stupid, if provided with all available information as well as clear statements regarding the reliability of that information and just a clear message saying "hey this is new and we have no idea, we are making…

> Most people are not stupid, if provided with all available information as well as clear statements regarding the reliability of that information and just a clear message saying "hey this is new and we have no idea, we are making our best guess" people will make decent choices Citation needed

Seriously, the run on toilet paper was a strong counter-argument.

Re: Covid lesson: trust the public with hard truths

#195

Post by bigodbiel » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 5:53 PM UTC

reducesuffering wrote: post #118

ssully wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's also worth pointing out that even with them saying masks aren't effective for the public, there was still a run on masks. I don't have the exact date, but when I looked for n95's at my local hardware store in March 2020, they were all gone and this was definitely before we were told to wear masks. And soon after we started getting stories about hospitals running low on PPE. I am not saying what the right…

> no matter what the government told people to do, there was going to be a contingent of people that would do the exact opposite because we are a stubborn and distrustful people. Americans are this way because the government continually gives them a reason to. The lying through the pandemic, the Iraq war, it just goes on.

America is like that from foundation! Distrust in the government is in this nation’s DNA! Right now Gov. Abbott is taking a major stand against Biden’s vaccine mandates.

Re: Covid lesson: trust the public with hard truths

#196

Post by twofornone » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 5:54 PM UTC

d23 wrote: post #186

alkonaut wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s “this”? that this Trump statement actually made any difference?

That Trump's motivation for literally anything is anything but pure, raw self-interest. It had nothing to do with a fear of panic and everything to do with the number of ways he perceived it in his self-interest to continually deny this was even happening. He gaslit an entire nation. Judging by the comments I've seen here lately (not yours), I'm really starting to question the company I'm keeping here.

>That Trump's motivation for literally anything is anything but pure, raw self-interest.

You do realize that this is unprovable speculation shaped entirely by the filter of media coverage, which is clearly much more favorable to the biden administration?

If our institutions are willing to mislead regarding covid, why would you trust them about any other politically charged subject?

Re: Covid lesson: trust the public with hard truths

#197

Post by jeromegv » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 5:55 PM UTC

mensetmanusman wrote: post #168

gravity13 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really partisan to point out that Republicans took anti-vaxxing to be practically their identifying feature?

Most anti-vaxxers I know are far left, and most republicans I know have all the other historic vaccines for school and travel, but are more suspicious of the Covid ones due in part to the lack of discussion about natural immunity in the US context (most of them who already had covid don’t want to get the vaccine since they do t think it is worth their time).

Is the problem the lack of discussion or the spread of fake news, disinformation and fear mongering in the US?

Most/all western countries have higher vax rate than the US (and survey says that vaccine usage is lower among republicans in the US), why is that?

You really think it’s due to lack of discussion on natural immunity?

Re: Covid lesson: trust the public with hard truths

#198

Post by greenail » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 5:55 PM UTC

dragontamer wrote: post #189

greenail wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are assuming "they" trust the Republican leadership. this Gallup poll says only 12% of Americans trust congress. https://news.gallup.com/poll/352316/americans-confidence-maj... Lots of other interesting tidbits about trust in there...

These people who don't trust masks trust ivermectin. Just... talk with them. Its obvious. There's one political party pushing ivermectin as a solution, and the other one doesn't. They want "their side" to be correct on this issue. They don't trust masks because masks were chosen by "the other side". They don't trust vaccines (despite being pushed by Operation Warp Speed by Mr. Trump) because someone else became presi…

My post had nothing to do with any party affiliation. I was simply pointing out the data regarding where trust in our institutions is. Please ratchet the "they"/"other" stuff back a bit. I don't think it is helping us trust each other.

Re: Covid lesson: trust the public with hard truths

#199

Post by bellyfullofbac » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 5:55 PM UTC

belltaco wrote: post #128

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion the biggest example of this was the poor mask guidance early on in the pandemic that was subsequently reversed. Zeynep Tufekci had a very good piece in the NYT on this: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/opinion/coronavirus-face-... The real fear was that there would be a run on masks by the public, making them unavailable for hospital use. Also, at the time, there wasn't clear evidence of the effective…

Edit: Everytime I point this out, I get hit by multiple downvotes That's a pretty poor example since people had already decided covid wasn't even as dangerous as the flu. The recipient of the highest civilian award in the US said this to his 15 million audience. >"It looks like the coronavirus is being weaponized as yet another element to bring down Donald Trump," Limbaugh said Feb. 24 on his radio show. "Now, I want…

Yeah you're getting downvoted because your championing Limbaugh and Fox News, known liars. Probably in your reality they're champions of truth, but seriously, your reality has some blind spots. Big ones.

Your citing quotes from the beginning of the pandemic. Hah, ever noticed how situations evolve and grow? Dubya didn't react when he heard about a plane hitting the first WTC tower because like everyone else, his aides probably evaluated it as an accident and not the start of an attack.

And sure, Limbaugh got awarded "the highest civilian award", but from a president who's a scumbag to a lot of other human beings. Biden also has this award, in your reality is Biden as honourable as Limbaugh? Or maybe Biden's medal wasn't worthy of him because it was "scumbag" Obama who awarded it to him?

Re: Covid lesson: trust the public with hard truths

#200

Post by infini8 » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 5:55 PM UTC

mensetmanusman wrote: post #156

The decision to lie to the public about masks fearing an N95 shortage for healthcare workers has been the biggest disaster in many minds. Ideally the government would have owned up and said: ‘wups we were supposed to be stockpiling these for the last 10 years when this topic came up in a disaster planning scenario (it did), but we didn’t do that and now there is no way we will have enough for many years because indus…

Hopefully one day we have transparent governments like this. In many respects the Danish government did a great job in dealing with the pandemic compared to the blunder it was in the UK.

If it's the public's trust you require...

Rule 1 - don't lie to them Rule 2 - don't lie to them Rule 3 - don't go against the very rules you set out for the public