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Norway to hit 100% electric vehicle sales by early next year

drive.com.au

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Re: Norway to hit 100% electric vehicle sales by early next year

#191

Post by magicalhippo »

mfer wrote: post #86
thomasfl wrote: post #14

There's a huge price difference between electric cars and gas fueled cars here in Norway. Gas fueled car buyers have to pay both 25 percent VAT and an additional tax on purchase. Buyers don't have to pay neither of those taxes if they buy an electric car. The singer of the group A-ha, Morten Harket, bought an electrical car in 1989 and refused to pay road tolls and ignored all the subsequent fines. That got a lot of…

How is Norway handling the increased use of the electric grid? I ask because Elon noted the US power grid needed to double output to handle a full is transition

While we have a lot of hydro power, the grid itself is not ideal. There are several regions which are quite constrained in terms of how much power they can import from other regions.

For example, recently there's been quite high electricity prices here (as in most of Europe) due to lack of rain. However this only affected the southern half of Norway[1], as the northern part had a fair bit of rain but limited distribution lines to the south.

There's been quite a bit of talk in the news about how much we need to spend to upgrade our grid for the future. It's not gonna be cheap...

[1] https://www.nordpoolgroup.com/Market-data1/Dayahead/Area-Pri... (compare Oslo with Tromsø for late September)

Re: Norway to hit 100% electric vehicle sales by early next year

#192

Post by ars »

blackoil wrote: post #154
ars wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Norway has a sovereign wealth fund (valuation: 1.4T in USD) that is setup specifically for this eventuality. That's not much - $25K per person over 10 years, and with an average income of $70K per person, and something like half of their economy is energy (most if not all social programs are funded from energy production). If oil were to stop tomorrow, they'd have around 10 years before the money runs out. (Maybe a…

A comment above says that only 14% of GDP is oil dependent. That does look apocalyptic even if by magic oil demand drops to 0 tomorrow.

14% of GDP - but a MUCH larger percent of exports. Also a quite large percent is indirectly from oil, i.e. oil related services.

Additionally social funding in Norway comes from oil - without that funding taxes would have to go up a lot.

Re: Norway to hit 100% electric vehicle sales by early next year

#193

Post by thehappypm »

mcdonje wrote: post #176
WalterBright wrote: post #5

20% of Norway's GDP comes from pumping oil out of the ground and selling it for others to burn. If they were really green that would stop.

On the other hand, it's impressive they've gone electric while they're a major oil producer.

They don’t want to get high on their own supply.

Re: Norway to hit 100% electric vehicle sales by early next year

#194

Post by m463 »

nostromo wrote: post #140
njovin wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar in California and other states. The states typically tax gasoline and since electrics don't use any they are implementing special fees on electric vehicle purchases to make up for lost revenue. One would think that the savings in pollution (not only for the car itself, but the transport of the fuel, pollution from refineries, etc.) would offset any lost revenue from gas taxes. What makes this really nonsensic…

It should be based on weight, not the car’s value. Most of the wear and tear on our roads come from trucks, not passenger cars.

But many electric vehicles weigh a lot.

A tesla model s weighs about as much as a ford f-150.

Re: Norway to hit 100% electric vehicle sales by early next year

#195

Post by tannhaeuser »

shkkmo wrote: post #53
dagw wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's about the size of New Mexico It is however much more spread out. Driving from the northernmost to southern most town of New Mexico is ~700 km. Driving from the southern most to northern most town of Norway is over 2300 km, or about the same has from the southernmost town of New Mexico to the Canadian border.

It's not about the max travelable distance in the country but the max distance actually traveled for most trips. The higher density (and population concentration in the south) reduces the latter and makes maintaining a charging network much more practical (their high adoption rate also help a lot with that.) Edit: The reason why this is the important measure is because what people care about is how often their trips…

But what about those living in the north, in the Fjell, and those working in remote spots such as forests? Are those really served well by EVs, and is it really all that sustainable to subsidy EV?

Re: Norway to hit 100% electric vehicle sales by early next year

#196

Post by megablast »

njovin wrote: post #97
ostenning wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile in Australia: electric cars are getting taxed more to support the aging oil infrastructure

Similar in California and other states. The states typically tax gasoline and since electrics don't use any they are implementing special fees on electric vehicle purchases to make up for lost revenue. One would think that the savings in pollution (not only for the car itself, but the transport of the fuel, pollution from refineries, etc.) would offset any lost revenue from gas taxes. What makes this really nonsensic…

Electric cars still create huge amounts of pollution when made, micro plastics from tires, and require ridiculous roads that plague the country.

Re: Norway to hit 100% electric vehicle sales by early next year

#197

Post by megablast »

darkmarmot wrote: post #164
SomeCallMeTim wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Colorado at least it's not that high. $50 plus a small amount (today) that goes up over time to no more than $96 in the 2031-2032 fiscal year. It's CERTAINLY a lot less than you'd be paying in gas tax if you used your car an average amount. Taxes aren't punishment, anyway. Especially "road use taxes", which are, in this case, used to repair the roads you're driving on. [1] https://afdc.energy.gov/laws/11486

Road wear is disproportionately caused by heavy vehicles; one study estimated that "one 18-wheeler is equivalent to the impact of 9,600 cars". The gas tax is primarily a subsidy designed to support the trucking industry.

We need trucks.

We don’t need people in cars.

Re: Norway to hit 100% electric vehicle sales by early next year

#198

Post by BLKNSLVR »

grecy wrote: post #158
ostenning wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile in Australia: electric cars are getting taxed more to support the aging oil infrastructure

The Aussie politicians have made it very clear who is lining their pockets.

It's impossible to exemplify the truth of that statement more clearly than this: The current Australian Prime Minister, who was Treasurer at the time, brought a lump of coal into Parliamentary Question Time[0].

[0]: https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/feb/09/scott...

Re: Norway to hit 100% electric vehicle sales by early next year

#199

Post by BLKNSLVR »

bellyfullofbac wrote: post #48

On the topic of Norwegian oil, a fascinating story of an Iraqi who helped them deal with being an oil-producing nation: https://web.archive.org/web/20100123225932/http://www.ft.com... He was an oil expert who met a Norwegian au-pair in London, they got together, married, had a sick kid so they decided to move to Norway, and because he had the whole day before he could take the train from Oslo to her hometown, he deci…

Norway's management of their oil reserves, or more specifically, the profits made from their oil reserves[0], is another lesson in running a country that Australia has failed[1] at even recognizing despite its vast mineral wealth and therefore applicability to future economic stability and strength.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Pension_Fund_of_Nor...

[1]: https://www.themonthly.com.au/issue/2015/july/1435672800/ric...

Re: Norway to hit 100% electric vehicle sales by early next year

#200

Post by Spivak »

anigbrowl wrote: post #169
njovin wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar in California and other states. The states typically tax gasoline and since electrics don't use any they are implementing special fees on electric vehicle purchases to make up for lost revenue. One would think that the savings in pollution (not only for the car itself, but the transport of the fuel, pollution from refineries, etc.) would offset any lost revenue from gas taxes. What makes this really nonsensic…

I mean, I think it's OK to charge vehicle owners some kinda usage fee to reflect the cost of congestion, road wear, traffic accidents etc., but it's very poorly implemented as is. An obvious solution seems to be to tax tires which are the dirtiest part of an electric car, need to be replaced moderately regularly but not too often, and which wear down in proportion to the amount and and intensity of use. Offroaders an…

Honestly I think it should be collected by insurance companies. You’re legally required to have it in basically all states so they’re effectively an arm of the gov’t, (and the BMV can collect it if you go the self-insurance route since you have to put up a cash deposit) plus your insurance company needs to know roughly how much you drive your car and so can charge proportionally.
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