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Facebook going down meant more than just a social network being unavailable

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Re: Facebook going down meant more than just a social network being unavailable

#191

Post by dongping »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #75

Was talking about this with a friend today, and I think this incident highlights why I sometimes get really depressed about my career and technology. I'm a Gen X-er, and I started my career in the late 90s. Before that I was a ham radio operator in junior high and HS (back when they had Morse code tests!). I remember the heady euphoria around the Internet then, and the vision of "tech utopia" was certainly the domina…

The discussion environment is worse because there're more people online. Being online alone was a great filter for fruitful discussions.

At least we have Library Genesis and Sci-Hub, which fit the vision of "tech utopia". It would have been great if there's more stuff like that (I left out the vibrant open source landscape, because it also sort of existed in the 90s, in a (way) smaller scale though.)

Re: Facebook going down meant more than just a social network being unavailable

#192

Post by baud147258 »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #51
lotsofpulp wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accessible would be the mobile networks allowing people to call overseas for $0.01 per minute. I would not dare try to call an international number via ATT/Verizon/T-Mobile outside of Canada/Mexico, because I would expect to pay at least $10 for the call if not more. I do not know where one would get $0.01 per minute international calls from the US, but it is most likely not as easy as an app on your smartphone.

Honestly, is there a good reason this hasn't happened yet? If people use WhatsApp, the mobile networks get $0, so they ought to be offering at least somewhat competitive prices...

> If people use WhatsApp, the mobile networks get $0

Doesn't the network get at least the fee for the internet connection?

Re: Facebook going down meant more than just a social network being unavailable

#193

Post by asddubs »

jbotz wrote: post #23
azangru wrote: post #16

Why is the conclusion in that tweet "the billionth reason to break down and regulate Facebook" rather than "the billionth reason not to use whatsapp as the de facto phone and text messaging platform"?

Because it isn't a question of individual choice. I use Signal as much as possible, but here in Brazil it seems WhatsApp/Facebook has some deal with all the cellular operators by which the a) give customers "unlimited WhatsApp usage" that doesn't count against their 3 or 5 GB/month internet usage quotas, and b) give WhatsApp traffic preference when their networks are congested, meaning that sometimes Signal messages…

additionally, android builds are also often shipped by OEMs to randomly kill apps running in the background, with an exception for whatsapp but not other messaging apps like signal and telegram

Re: Facebook going down meant more than just a social network being unavailable

#195

Post by makeitdouble »

pjc50 wrote: post #174
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #75

Was talking about this with a friend today, and I think this incident highlights why I sometimes get really depressed about my career and technology. I'm a Gen X-er, and I started my career in the late 90s. Before that I was a ham radio operator in junior high and HS (back when they had Morse code tests!). I remember the heady euphoria around the Internet then, and the vision of "tech utopia" was certainly the domina…

> Sure, telcos sucked, but there were tons of them spread across all corners of the globe Local monopolies rather than a global one. What if there was a global, international messaging system available to everyone with a phone, that strove for five-nines reliability? And wasn't funded by advertising? And didn't deplatform anyone(+)? Oh wait it's called SMS and everyone hates it, largely for good reasons. The internet…

I understand the feeling, but SMS really doesn't work. A the end of the day, it is just a hack on top of the telephone network.

There are countries were SMS is actually local to the carrier, and they don't route user messages out of their bounds. In the olden days it was fun asking people where they contract their phone to decide wether to mail them or message them.

Some countries have horrible reliability for SMSes, I think India is a famous one. Trying to do user auth over SMS becomes a nightmare.

Then the issues if you cross borders, where you'll be enjoying both countries SMS idiosyncrasies on top of the round trip costs.

Then carriers won't open SMS to non voice SIMs, even if they get an access to the network. But you'll need to meet specific criteria to get a voice enabled SIM.

All in all, it's a tried and true protocol in limited setups, but not something to hold as a global gold standard (I think there sadly is no global standard to hold on a pedestal...we can hope we make one in the future)

Re: Facebook going down meant more than just a social network being unavailable

#196

Post by asddubs »

ALittleLight wrote: post #12

"You have built, bought, or maintained a product which is vital to billions. It's a free service unavailable 0.01% of the year. For this you must be punished."

I don't think the point is being made from the standpoint that facebook ought to be punished, but from a more pragmatic one that no one private entity should be in control of something so vital

Re: Facebook going down meant more than just a social network being unavailable

#197

Post by blippage »

sandworm101 wrote: post #101
corinroyal wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tempting. Sadly, if we let the sheep have their FB, the likely result will be that we lose whatever semblance of democracy we have left. Already we're down to one party that belives in free and fair elections. Our system depends on informed citizens, not massive authoritarian psyop experiments. The longer we go where the majority can't get overwhelmingly popular policies accomplished, the closer we get to turning to…

That is the US story. It has less to do with facebook and more to do with the US political system. There are plenty of countries who have very different systems that have not followed the same path in recent years. Tech companies are part of the problem but should not be made scapegoat to avoid the deeper issues within the American political system, issues that existed long before the internet was a thing.

UK Brit here. Countries like the UK and the US certainly have their flaws, but I'd take them before nearly everything else that's on offer.

China's system seems terrible. The whole of Africa seems like a corrupt system. The EU seems mostly woke, and I'm not sure I particularly want that. Canada seems to have bought a first class ticket on the Progressivist crazy train from what I've been hearing. What's left? Not much, by the looks of it. Singapore, maybe?

Re: Facebook going down meant more than just a social network being unavailable

#198

Post by rendall »

I despise the company that Facebook is, and hope that it crashes and burns in ignominy such that by comparison we remember AOL fondly.

That said, I'm utterly alarmed by calls such as this to "regulate" Facebook. We really want to legitimize f*cking Facebook like that by nationalizing / turning it into a utility? Then we'll be stuck with it for-goddamn-ever

Let's stick to principles, enforce existing (or write effective) anti-monopoly, consumer- and data- protection laws.

And, I'm fine with taking the karma hit if even one person hears this: You. Yes, you, reading this. Stop bitching about Facebook and delete your account. We as a society can neither build nor evaluate anything better while you, and yes, I mean you, you specifically, reading this, use Facebook. Especially when you rationalize it by reference to the fact that everyone else is on it. Kick that crutch out from under yourself and learn how to keep in touch with friends, family and that cute barista without compromise. Delete your account.

Thank you for listening.

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