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What they don’t tell you when you translate your app

ericwbailey.design

191–200 of 236 posts

Re: What they don’t tell you when you translate your app

#191

Youtube still shows dates for "Premieres on..." in MM/DD/YY, regardless of the locale. Internationalisation and localisation are such hard problems that even the big FAANG companies fail at it.

I would very much be on board for YYYYMMDD universal standard enforced by whatever means necessary to get it done.

But why people don’t use JAN / FEB / MAR … DD YYYY, IDK, seems low friction and no one gets confused even if they would rather see 7 JAN 2022

Re: What they don’t tell you when you translate your app

#192
post #67

> People may prefer the English experience because they expect the translated version to be inferior Even more, bilingual people exist! A translated version is always worse. With a good human-made translation, it may just be a matter of making things un-Google-able or misrepresenting certain concepts. With an automatic translation, it's usually completely unusable. I'm a native speaker of Dutch. I'm a near-native spe…

A translation doesn't have to be worse, especially in a technical context. It's just that the translation market has been steadily going downhill since the 90s, and nobody cares about quality any more.

My parents are software translators. They've been in the business since before I was born; back when software was just starting to be translated. You have no idea how much prices and quality have fallen. It's really, really sad.

Software localization used to involve the localizers working together with the developers, making UI changes, testing the real software, and using translation memory tools as an aid to ensure consistency.

These days people just get a pile of strings to translate with no context, machine translation is used by default (and agencies pay less because they give you a garbage MT version to start off with, as if it doesn't take as much time to fix it as it would to transalate from scratch), and translation memories are used with no cross checks, often translating things wrong due to entirely different context.

Further, localization is often treated as an afterthought, with developers having no idea of what the technical requirements for good localization are. Plural forms, placeholder reordering, etc.

If you want a good translation, you need to pay for it, but nobody wants to do that these days; they just want the bare minimum so they can claim to have their software available in such and such language.

Re: What they don’t tell you when you translate your app

#193
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

National flags and languages are not a 1:1 map. Some flags have multiple languages, and some languages have multiple flags. And that can be "close enough", until you for example serve English speaking people in Ireland the Union Jack. Both languages and flags can be sensitive topics in certain parts of the world.

If anyone in Ireland is offended at the use of a Union Jack to signify the button for English language then they need to grow up. Fast.

I don't know much about Ireland, maybe it's not that sensitive an issue there. So how about this: what's the correct flag to show for Arabic in Israel?

Last time I fiddled with some automated kiosk at Ben Gurion airport I noticed they used a Jordanian flag for Arabic. That's an interesting choice, because if I had to guess most of the people choosing Arabic at that kiosk would not choose that as their flag.

Re: What they don’t tell you when you translate your app

#194
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

National flags and languages are not a 1:1 map. Some flags have multiple languages, and some languages have multiple flags. And that can be "close enough", until you for example serve English speaking people in Ireland the Union Jack. Both languages and flags can be sensitive topics in certain parts of the world.

If anyone in Ireland is offended at the use of a Union Jack to signify the button for English language then they need to grow up. Fast.

So have another example: if you were to translate your application into Tibetan (for some reason), what flag would you use for it?

(The Tibetan flag is literally illegal to display in Tibet, as the Chinese government considers it a symbol of the separatist movement. So you probably don't want to use that...)

Re: What they don’t tell you when you translate your app

#195
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you actually care about people being able to find the switch language button, use flags. Usability trumps correctness here.

Please don't. Flags are not languages. ( http://www.flagsarenotlanguages.com/ ) There are many languages which cannot be clearly distinguished with a flag icon -- for example, there are dozens of languages which could be represented by an Indian flag (Hindi, Bengali, Telugu, Urdu...), and some languages which don't have any clear flag, or whose flag could be politically complicated to display (like Catalan, Romani, o…

lmm may be suggesting the use of flags as iconography only for the button that opens a popup where you can choose a language. That would be somewhat less bad.

Re: What they don’t tell you when you translate your app

#196

Youtube still shows dates for "Premieres on..." in MM/DD/YY, regardless of the locale. Internationalisation and localisation are such hard problems that even the big FAANG companies fail at it.

I would very much be on board for YYYYMMDD universal standard enforced by whatever means necessary to get it done. But why people don’t use JAN / FEB / MAR … DD YYYY, IDK, seems low friction and no one gets confused even if they would rather see 7 JAN 2022

Yes using JAN FEB etc. would be a very effective quick and dirty fix. I guess the only reason why not many complain in this case, is that "premieres on..." is a feature that almost no one uses on Youtube.

Re: What they don’t tell you when you translate your app

#197
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you actually care about people being able to find the switch language button, use flags. Usability trumps correctness here.

Please don't. Flags are not languages. ( http://www.flagsarenotlanguages.com/ ) There are many languages which cannot be clearly distinguished with a flag icon -- for example, there are dozens of languages which could be represented by an Indian flag (Hindi, Bengali, Telugu, Urdu...), and some languages which don't have any clear flag, or whose flag could be politically complicated to display (like Catalan, Romani, o…

> It's unambiguous

On the contrary, if you just use the name of the language then it's not at all clear to a user who's using the "wrong" language where the language selector is.

Re: What they don’t tell you when you translate your app

#198
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting rid of time zones is a nice idea for the first five seconds you think about it.

Mainland China did mostly. Everything is +8[0] (besides Xinjiang Time[1]) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_China [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_Time

Yes. But, that’s also only 4 time zones squashed into one, with vast majority of the population living in 2. EU could remove time zones, US too, but worldwide it would be quite unpleasant to completely lose the notion of when a « morning » is.

Re: What they don’t tell you when you translate your app

#199
post #5

> People may prefer the English experience because they expect the translated version to be inferior As an Italian, I can relate so much to this, because translated apps will happily treat verbs as adjectives and vice versa. A couple example: * Flixbus' app translates "Open ticket" to "Biglietto aperto" (treating "open" as an adjective, not as an imperative verb). Correct translation should be "Apri biglietto". Nothi…

French here, I do the same, French translation are unbearable. Not only will there be tons of small mistakes with nouns/verbs as you mentioned, but maybe worst, there is often "overtranslation". Some words are well established as technical jargon in English, and should _not_ be translated. - "cloud" -> "infonuagique" - "email" -> "courriel" - "freeware" -> "gatuiciel" ...

While I agree that we (fellow Frenchman here) tend to overtranslate, some of our portmanteaus are kind of clever.

My personal favourite is illectronisme, a combination of illettrisme (illiteracy) and électronique (electronic), to refer to people who are not good with computers.

Re: What they don’t tell you when you translate your app

#200
post #20

This has a lot of good points, but the site it self has a huge distraction: Why is the font so big?

Probably because the author is thinking about people with poor vision? IMO, it's poor design for a page to handle accessibility issues that are already built into the browser. (It's trivial to shrink and zoom in a browser.)

I have to wonder what the complaint can be if it's trivial to shrink text - aren't you simply looking at this from the perspective of someone with better vision?
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