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FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

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Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#191

Post by probablypower »

giantg2 wrote: post #8
eganist wrote: post #2

My biggest concern now is around seeing those who hedged their willingness to get the vaccine on its approval instead find a new reason not to get it. So with that in mind, I'm much more keen on seeing how employers will decide on vaccination mandates now that at least one vaccine is fully approved. Any news yet on whether any more employers are likely implementing mandates (if they haven't already this morning) base…

"...instead find a new reason not to get it." Or continue an existing reason: "Information is not yet available about potential long-term health outcomes."

As someone who has had both COVID (before vaccines were available) and a COVID vaccine, this reasoning seems frankly dumb as bricks.

There is uncertainty about long-term effects of both. There is no uncertainty about the short-term effects of COVID, which are magnitudes worse than the short-term effects of a vaccine. COVID for me was a multi-week flu that scared the shit out of me because I didn't know how bad it would get or if I'd live through it. I took months to get my smell/taste back, three months to get back to previous fitness levels, hair loss, and significant mental fog and memory problems. The jab was one day of tiredness and I ran a marathon two days after no problem.

I really can't fathom how anyone could put themselves and those around them at such great risk, rather than taking a vaccine.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#192

Post by armagon »

acdha wrote: post #6

I’m wondering what the odds are that people will pivot from “it’s experimental” to “it was rushed due to politics/greed”. I think a huge factor will be how many employers, colleges, etc. are now willing and legally able to require vaccination. It’s one thing to say you trust something you read on Facebook more than your doctor and quite another to walk away from a job because of it.

I know one person who walked away from a job months ago because he figured he'd be required to vaccinate, and another who is prepared to walk away if her job requires it.

I don't think this is a decision they made lightly.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#193

Post by miked85 »

endisneigh wrote: post #164
miked85 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m wondering what the odds are that people will pivot from “it’s experimental” to “it was rushed due to politics/greed”. Or maybe just stick with the fact that it isn't very effective. [1] [1] https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.06.21261707v...

That’s not really what your link says tho. > Both vaccines were highly effective during this study period against SARS-CoV-2 infection (mRNA-1273: 86%, 95%CI: 81-90.6%; BNT162b2: 76%, 95%CI: 69-81%) and COVID-19 associated hospitalization (mRNA-1273: 91.6%, 95% CI: 81-97%; BNT162b2: 85%, 95% CI: 73-93%). However, in July, the effectiveness against infection was considerably lower for mRNA-1273 (76%, 95% CI: 58-87%) w…

You literally posted the part describing how much effectiveness has dropped with variants.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#194

Post by giantg2 »

rrock wrote: post #182
giantg2 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a similar mechanism, right? You're just using a virus to carry the genetic material, which also involves an extra transcription step in the cell (what is theorized as causing mutations in the spike and thus the stroke/clotting issues). Still quite different from the traditional inactive or protein based ones.

Transcription causes mutations in the spike that causes clotting issues? Do you have any idea how much transcription happens in your cells, every moment of every day? You need to reconsider where you’re getting your information.

Here you go:

https://www.euronews.com/next/2021/05/27/why-are-aztrazeneca...

https://www.europeanpharmaceuticalreview.com/news/155536/bre...

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#195

Post by bluGill »

c7DJTLrn wrote: post #78
cle wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Shouldn't people have the right to choose what they take? It's not this simple. Not taking a vaccine during a pandemic has negative externalities, since you're increasing the risk of infection and death of those you interact with, you increase the likelihood of consuming scarce resources (such as ICU beds), etc. I largely agree with you, but framing it as a simple "individual choice" issue is reductive at best.

1. Those who are vaccinated have a significant reduction in risk of death (not to mention that the risk is very minute for young people anyway), so that's a moot point 2. Some vaccinated people have been found to carry the same levels of the virus as unvaccinated people, so stating that unvaccinated people could be increasing risk to others is also a moot point 3. Once the so called "R" rate is below one, the virus i…

> Some vaccinated people have been found to carry the same levels of the virus as unvaccinated people, so stating that unvaccinated people could be increasing risk to others is also a moot point

Some is in this case a small minority. In general you have the same level up to about day 5, then vaccinated drops down to zero over the next few days while vaccinated levels keep raising for several more days.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#196

Post by acdha »

peakaboo wrote: post #86
acdha wrote: post #6

I’m wondering what the odds are that people will pivot from “it’s experimental” to “it was rushed due to politics/greed”. I think a huge factor will be how many employers, colleges, etc. are now willing and legally able to require vaccination. It’s one thing to say you trust something you read on Facebook more than your doctor and quite another to walk away from a job because of it.

I think you are right. People won't change their minds about it. But the question is, should they be allowed to control what goes inside their bodies? In my opinion, the answer is a huge YES OF COURSE.

The problem is that it’s not that simple because your choices significantly impact other people: I can’t choose whether or not to receive the viruses you spread, so I have an interest in you spreading far fewer of them. My 4 year old child can’t be vaccinated so he, along with many immune-compromised people or those with certain medical conditions, is dependent on other people getting vaccinated to sharply reduce spread. Anyone who needs medical care is dependent on those facilities not being overloaded by people who chose to remain at high risk for a preventable disease.

This is not new: only the most libertarian fringes reject the idea that living in a society comes with obligations. We avoided millions of life-altering diseases with vaccination and politicizing medical care is going to go down in history as the worst move since the CIA decided to use public health workers as a cover story.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#197

Post by symlinkk »

tantalor wrote: post #103
roody15 wrote: post #82

Just my two cents: This feels rushed and has serious potential to lead to more division and less faith in government institutions overall. (am vaccinated 2 doses Moderna)

Compared to what?

I thought everyone was saying full approval of vaccines take years of clinical trials. This was done much more quickly than that.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#198

Post by kook_throwaway »

bastardoperator wrote: post #130
c7DJTLrn wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Concern? Why? The virus is under control in countries where the vaccine rollout has been swift. Why do you sound so keen to force something on people that they don't want, regardless of their reasons? Shouldn't people have the right to choose what they take? If people can lose their jobs over it then clearly they don't have that right - that's a form of coercion/blackmail. I think the focus on a small minority of peo…

It's socially irresponsible and the impact to others is possible death. I wouldn't have a problem if these people weren't spreading death to others, but instead, they choose to force themselves on the rest of us because "freedom". The same people that don't understand vaccines are also likely to think masks don't work, so they take zero precautions when it comes to their safety and others. The focus is just, these fo…

>It's socially irresponsible and the impact to others is possible death.

Who are they killing? Others that didn't get the vaccine?

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#199

Post by bluGill »

Markoff wrote: post #189
bastardoperator wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's socially irresponsible and the impact to others is possible death. I wouldn't have a problem if these people weren't spreading death to others, but instead, they choose to force themselves on the rest of us because "freedom". The same people that don't understand vaccines are also likely to think masks don't work, so they take zero precautions when it comes to their safety and others. The focus is just, these fo…

being obese is socially irresponsible in these times, yet I don't see obese people banned from buying junk food and going to eat junk food in restaurants

The obese don't go around killing kids.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#200

Post by thepasswordis »

People don’t want to take the vaccine because others are trying to force them to.

They would say “it’s not FDA approved!” not as the core of their hesitancy, but because they were trying to be appeal to pro-vax peoples decision making framework.

I don’t think we should be able to require them to.

To many of you here: imagine the Trump admin trying to require you to take the vaccine in November of last year. Cities would have burned over it.

And honestly: I was one of the first to take it, but the desire to almost force me to take a booster, and the weird, Orwellian ways that the government talks about it, has turned me against the booster.

It ends up feeling less like the decisions are guided by science and more like they’re guided by petty tyrants wanting to control what others do.

Anybody who has ever lived under an HOA will recognize this.

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