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Unifying iPadOS and macOS

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Re: Unifying iPadOS and macOS

#191

Post by arvinsim »

walterbell wrote: post #90
howaboutnope wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But for anything non-trivial, that app that does everything person A needs doesn't do what person B needs, and vice versa. It mostly does what person C needs, who is a whiteboard made subset of the most used features and doesn't match anyone. It's not just UNIX-like flexibility, it's human uniqueness, and the uniqueness of the tasks they perform and the ideas they have. It's also the difference between owning and kno…

> Just consider how we spend decades to teach new humans to read and write as well as they can learn it, versus just giving them a bunch of emoticons to signal when they're hungry or sleepy or bored. Because we expect them to become full peers, and architects of their world, responsible for the next generation, not just consumers picking options others prepared for them. Thanks for this summary of the case for genera…

The problem is that company incentives want users to just be consumers. Because locked in users that are dependent on the company is very profitable.

Re: Unifying iPadOS and macOS

#192

Post by arvinsim »

emodendroket wrote: post #109
howaboutnope wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But for anything non-trivial, that app that does everything person A needs doesn't do what person B needs, and vice versa. It mostly does what person C needs, who is a whiteboard made subset of the most used features and doesn't match anyone. It's not just UNIX-like flexibility, it's human uniqueness, and the uniqueness of the tasks they perform and the ideas they have. It's also the difference between owning and kno…

Why should the average person learn these skills in particular rather than plumbing, cooking, woodwork, auto repair, or any number of other useful skills they could also learn?

Why not? What makes software development any less useful than the skills you mentioned?

Re: Unifying iPadOS and macOS

#193

Post by emodendroket »

arvinsim wrote: post #192
emodendroket wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should the average person learn these skills in particular rather than plumbing, cooking, woodwork, auto repair, or any number of other useful skills they could also learn?

Why not? What makes software development any less useful than the skills you mentioned?

Nothing. But I don't see anyone claiming that every high schooler needs to do mandatory shop or culinary arts classes, or lamenting that because you can just buy furniture in a store people no longer know how to make it themselves.

Re: Unifying iPadOS and macOS

#194

Post by jonas21 »

_fat_santa wrote: post #183
adrusi wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just it. The future is very likely most people using iPad-like devices. They will need some kind of keyboard, so I'm not sure it's going to be tablets mostly, but the software will resemble that of smartphones. But no desktop operating systems are well suited to being used primarily by professionals, not even Linux. The desktop paradigm is fine, but it was designed with the idea of making computers more access…

I feel like a traditional OS will always stick around because of software developers. I couldn't imagine trying to build an iOS app on an iPad, even an iPad Pro with a keyboard. There will always be some more advanced tool that is used to build the tools. Thought it will still be interesting to see where that will go in the next 20 years. Like you said with the convergence of desktop and mobile devices on the one han…

> I couldn't imagine trying to build an iOS app on an iPad, even an iPad Pro with a keyboard.

Why not? The only officially-supported way to build iOS apps right now is using Xcode on a Mac. What would be the difference between using the Xcode app on a Mac or the Xcode app on an iPad with a keyboard?

Re: Unifying iPadOS and macOS

#195

Post by scoopertrooper »

dagmx wrote: post #87
flohofwoe wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Low code" and "no code" solutions have existed for as long as computers exist (for instance to automate tasks, author shaders, or describe simple gameplay logic), yet they were always specialized niche solutions and never replaced "freestyle coding". If such a thing has been tried over and over again for half a century but hasn't had a breakthrough and replaced the alternatives I think it's likely that this also won…

I feel like many people forget how many "no-code" solutions have existed over the decades. It's been the dream that so many people have chased. The solutions get better over time, but the issue is the people who can code don't consider them as anything more than toys, while the ones who are empowered by them, now make things they couldn't before.

Even in mathematics, a field which is much more amenable to graphical representation, textual descriptions still dominate textbooks and graphics are only used to help illustrate certain concepts with simplified problems.

Part of the problem there is dimensionality, a 2D surface can only show a projection of a problem in 2D space. The highest level of dimensionality that most humans can reason about when projected onto 2D space is 3D. There are workarounds for this, such as show multiple different dimensions projected onto 2D space side-by-side, but there are limits to the effectiveness of this and the amount of screen available.

A graph can easily show you that a ball thrown in the air will follow a parabolic path, but can it a single graph also incorporate factors such as ball diameter, wind direction, initial velocity, gravity, and atmospheric density? A creative graph maker might be able to capture some of these elements together, but not all. A program must capture them all together.

Most programs have an extremely high degree of dimensionality, so they are innately poorly suited to generalised description with graphical approaches.

The most we can ever really hope for is visual domain specific languages that restrict the dimensionality of manageable levels.

Re: Unifying iPadOS and macOS

#196

Post by rank0 »

adrusi wrote: post #114
flohofwoe wrote: post #4

It's not about the touch screen, the UI, the hardware or "casual" vs "professional" users, but simply about the ability to create(!) and combine small specialized tools into something that's bigger than the sum of its parts. The "walled garden app ecosystem" is exceptionally bad for this, and the UNIX shell is exceptionally good, but both are extremes. It's hard to imagine how a UNIX-like flexibility can be achieved…

That's just it. The future is very likely most people using iPad-like devices. They will need some kind of keyboard, so I'm not sure it's going to be tablets mostly, but the software will resemble that of smartphones. But no desktop operating systems are well suited to being used primarily by professionals, not even Linux. The desktop paradigm is fine, but it was designed with the idea of making computers more access…

Which “professionals” do not use desktop operating systems?

Re: Unifying iPadOS and macOS

#197

Post by adrusi »

rank0 wrote: post #196
adrusi wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just it. The future is very likely most people using iPad-like devices. They will need some kind of keyboard, so I'm not sure it's going to be tablets mostly, but the software will resemble that of smartphones. But no desktop operating systems are well suited to being used primarily by professionals, not even Linux. The desktop paradigm is fine, but it was designed with the idea of making computers more access…

Which “professionals” do not use desktop operating systems?

Well I'm claiming that most future ones will not. There's no reason that smartphone/tablet style OSs couldn't accomodate video editor, graphic designers, writers, salespeople, real estate brokers, etc in the future. And the demand exists, so I'm betting that that'll be our actual future.

But they cannot in principle accomodate software developers.

Re: Unifying iPadOS and macOS

#198

Post by TheRealNGenius »

schappim wrote: post #165
whywhywhywhy wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>According to their latest earnings report, iPhones made Apple $39.57B, iPads $7.37B, and Macs $8.24B These are just device sales right? You have to remember iPads have the App Store revenue and the cream scooping of IAP/subscription revenue of most applications running on them. Apple doesn't get a cut of my Photoshop subscription on Mac, it absolutely gets a cut when I buy Procreate on iOS.

Apple is getting services revenue on the Mac. At least half the Mac GUI Apps I use are delivered via the Mac App Store. That number moves towards 100% for my non tech friends. I continue to use iCloud because I have a Mac.

I use a Mac, in tech, subscribe to no services, and do not use the Mac App Store. There, now you have one more data point.

Re: Unifying iPadOS and macOS

#199

Post by kcb »

jonas21 wrote: post #194
_fat_santa wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like a traditional OS will always stick around because of software developers. I couldn't imagine trying to build an iOS app on an iPad, even an iPad Pro with a keyboard. There will always be some more advanced tool that is used to build the tools. Thought it will still be interesting to see where that will go in the next 20 years. Like you said with the convergence of desktop and mobile devices on the one han…

> I couldn't imagine trying to build an iOS app on an iPad, even an iPad Pro with a keyboard. Why not? The only officially-supported way to build iOS apps right now is using Xcode on a Mac. What would be the difference between using the Xcode app on a Mac or the Xcode app on an iPad with a keyboard?

1 monitor and cumbersome multi-tasking would be a nightmare for development work

Re: Unifying iPadOS and macOS

#200

Post by TheRealNGenius »

_ph_ wrote: post #98

There is a lot of reason for having different UIs to start with, between a tablet and a laptop or even a desktop computer. Though I think productivity could be better on the iPad in this regard too. But the very basic problem is file handling. It somehow seems to vary across apps. Some have local storage to themselves which is hidden from everyone, some have visible local storage, others support files/iCloud. While f…

True, these things seems intentionally made complicated since they want to push Apple Music/TV subscriptions. If you still haven't figured it out, you can put iTunes music to your iPad. But it requires like ~$20/year subscription called iTunes Match. So yeah, you can't do it for free using their suggested methods.
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