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After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

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Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#191
post #27

This guy appears to be a self-styled liberal activist operating in the business world. According to this fawning Business Insider piece (did his PR agent write it?), he has tried his hand at fixing climate change, inequality, health care, AI ethics, and so on. https://www.businessinsider.com/mustafa-suleyman-the-lefty-a... He dropped out of his degree at Oxford and then founded a telephone helpline for Muslim youths.…

Quite a lot of people drop out of Oxford because it's an intense high-pressure environment. It may not have been out of choice, even if he's portraying it that way

This comment managed to blow my mind. Are we really trying to say the cofounder of DEEPMIND is too stupid / incompetent to have graduated from Oxford and came up with a charity as a front for it?

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#192
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a total mystery to me why do people feel the urge to defend him. I kind of understand this in the case of technically brilliant but socially awkward people, but this guy seems to have done nothing but management in his life. And if this is how he's doing management then I don't understand why he's tolerated at all.

It's a culture war thing... HN believes that capabilities tend to be zero-sum, and any character flaws are evidence of genius in other regards. The "brilliant but eccentric scientist" cliché, more or less. There's also an unwillingness to either consider the concept of "bullying" as real, because it's not easily quantified and/or defined in such a way that you could spot it in a single-page flowchart. Or a learnt def…

> HN believes that capabilities tend to be zero-sum, and any character flaws are evidence of genius in other regards. The "brilliant but eccentric scientist" cliché, more or less.

I think "zero sum" is itself rooted in envy and pride. I.e., when people that lack humility know, or at least sense, suspect, or believe, that they lack some quality that someone else has, they are prone to believing the zero-sum distribution of qualities because it gratifies their egos. They also tend to view these qualities as fungible (at least in a manner that benefits their calculus of self-worth), which they are not. Of course, envy, like all vices, warps one's perception of reality. I wish more people understood that unrepented vice leads to rationalization of the vice which leads to the subsequent corruption of knowledge and wisdom. Breaking free of this pathology is difficult.

> There might be hints of what's sometimes referred to as "toxic masculinity" in there, as well.

Sadly, that term is entirely ambiguous, but I would say that both absence of masculinity in men as well as the "the brute" are two extremes that ought to be avoided. Masculinity is neither about domineering behavior nor subservience. Masculinity finds its fulfillment in the readiness for self-sacrifice. Leaderships is service. The difference between leadership and tyranny is that in the second case, the "leader" exploits those he is suppose to be leading in some capacity for the common good of the group. Abusive behavior is especially egregious when done by those in positions of leadership.

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#194
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did I get promoted when I got that new title? - If I make more money, it is a promotion. If I didn't, it is a demotion. - If the number of reports increases, it is a promotion. If it decreases, it is a demotion. - If I have more areas reporting to me, it is a promotion. If I have fewer areas, then it is a demotion. - If I have greenfield projects under my direction, it is a promotion. If I have maintenance projects,…

What if some of those apply but not all? For example, I make more money than I used to but have fewer people below me. Have I been promoted or not?

+1 for each positive and -1 for each negative, maximum score of 4, minimum score of -4, 0 is sideways, salary must be compared against industry salaries… so if industry average rises and yours didn’t rise as much, that is a demotion

This is kind of in jest and just a rough measure. Like if your salary went up 100x this doesn’t capture that. Positive and negative measures tend to be correlated though (I suspect that this looks more like 3 bell curves instead of one). Would be wonderful there was an industry database of this to invalidate or validate guesses.

Extremely bad indicators

- Having no reports

- No longer presenting in company meetings

- No longer being invited to meetings where decisions are made

- Bad seating location

Extremely positive indicators

- In regular staff meetings

- Introduced to VIP guests

- Sit near CEO

Against, this is partly in jest, Dilbert style Just some things I have noticed…

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#195
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did I get promoted when I got that new title? - If I make more money, it is a promotion. If I didn't, it is a demotion. - If the number of reports increases, it is a promotion. If it decreases, it is a demotion. - If I have more areas reporting to me, it is a promotion. If I have fewer areas, then it is a demotion. - If I have greenfield projects under my direction, it is a promotion. If I have maintenance projects,…

Sidegrade career moves exist.

Yes

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#197
post #130
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who drops out of Oxford unless it’s to start a business? You’d almost think he was an intelligence asset of something. I think you've been smoking too much weed my friend.

If I was the British intelligence services, this is exactly what I’d do. Recruit bright, middle class students from Oxford, fast track their career through the NGO sector (where results don’t matter), build up their public profile with press coverage, then deploy them to the private sector and hope that they will end up inside one of the multinationals that are more powerful and influential than most countries. I mea…

That's a lot of work, for what goal?

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#198
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're the one claiming the story is exaggerated, dramatized, sensationalist and now character assassination. This isn't a court of law, there is no "burden of proof." And if there were, you're clearly not willing to carry it yourself.

Yes, I am also claiming something. I am claiming exaggeration. My proof is the article, and I would rightfully assume they provided the strongest reasons for him being a bully there, I do not see bullying. I am not the court, and I don't expect to know the fine details, but I need to the know the high-level points. I do not find these. This is not Soviet-era Russia. If your going to be public about a person's guilt,…

[deleted]

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#199
post #88

I see a lot of people saying this seems not a big deal, or that his leadership deserved promotion. It’s because this is a second order article. The original, most substantive source that I could find is quite thorough: https://archive.is/wqdkF > "He would ask us to do personal things for him," one of these people said. "He said, 'I need you to write a briefing for me on Russian history and politics.' [...] We had abs…

It's a total mystery to me why do people feel the urge to defend him. I kind of understand this in the case of technically brilliant but socially awkward people, but this guy seems to have done nothing but management in his life. And if this is how he's doing management then I don't understand why he's tolerated at all.

I think people have an urge to defend him because they know they have done the same. There is a crisis right now when it comes to managers of people. They either haven’t been trained to see people that they supervise as equals or have been explicitly told or learned that it is ok to be a shitty person while being a manager.

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you just compare asking if something looks good to having them write up an assessment of Russian political history? Yeah I’ll go ahead and ask my dog walker to write me an analysis of the potential outcomes if Britain had joined against the US during the Trent affair. If they refuse I’ll fire them and write horrible reviews about them because obviously they don’t take their job seriously /s You’ve got to be kiddi…

I never said "asking". I meant a small report. And this, only a single time. Absolutely no problem in my book. Are you really comparing a "dog walker" to somebody who creates IP (nothing against dog walkers).

If anyone asked me something so ridiculous at my job they would get a copy and paste from wikipedia.
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