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Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

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191–200 of 374 posts

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#191
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom of speech is protected only so much as the protection is enforced. It is not some sort of fundamental law. With weak-kneed politicians and indifferent population it inevitably erodes.

It actually is. It's a fundamental human right under the European Convention on Human Rights (to which Switzerland is a party) , Art. 10: "ARTICLE 10 Freedom of expression 1. Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This Article shall not preve…

I think the OP meant that it isn't a fundamental law like in physics, so it doesn't 'enforce' itself

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#192

As a faculty member and PhD advisor, let me offer my reading between the lines. The student and advisor did not get along already. The student went to China and found a girlfriend. The lockdown separated them. Hormones flared, exacerbating what was probably already a tense situation. The student was increasingly a problem (note the screaming at the advisor mentioned in TFA). The advisor decided that it was no longer…

Your take is not supported by any of the evidence. The email exchanges (as seen by the newspaper) show a friendly relationship up until the tweets.

Quote from the article: "The professor went on to explain that the relationship of trust had already been strained, because Gerber had «lost his temper» during a conversation a year earlier, and had told her that he no longer wanted to continue his doctorate at St. Gallen in any form, and no longer needed her as a doctoral supervisor."

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#193

To be clear, what happened to this kid is horrible and just demonstrates that we have to get serious on this problem. However this comment annoyed me: "«I'm in Switzerland, not China,» Gerber replied. «I can say what I want here.»" You can tell this kid grew up in the la-la land that is the West, particularly Europe. I find this comment to be an infuriating mix anivete and patronizing. For the naïveté Switzerland is…

Another reading of this is: "freedom of speech is protected in this country". And that is true, not the fairytale you suggest it to be.

I didn't suggest anything, generally I avoid suggestion. It's pusillanimous.

Switzerland has a lot of freedom, certainly compared to China and other European countries. It's without a doubt my favorite country, one I'd want to live in. But, as we're finding out, the "free speech protections" that we drone on about are only as good as we are willing to insist on.

"freedom of speech is protected in this country" is meaningless if it only restricts government from silencing its citizens. Companies and powerful interest groups can and do restrict the speech of people, and I don't see the Swiss government rushing to pass laws to force Google to stop censoring.

Anyway, freedom of speech protections in Switzerland are not that good compared to, say, the US. You can't, for example, criticize islam (I hate when people mock islam, btw).

From Article 261 of the Swiss Penal Code:

"Any person who publicly and maliciously insults or mocks the religious convictions of others, and in particularly their belief in God, or maliciously desecrates objects of religious veneration, any person who maliciously prevents, disrupts or publicly mocks an act of worship, the conduct of which is guaranteed by the Constitution, or any person who maliciously desecrates a place or object that is intend- ed for a religious ceremony or an act of worship the conduct of which is guaranteed by the Constitution, is liable to a monetary penalty.277"

So Charlie Hebdo (who are disgusting, btw) should have been fined in Switzerland. Btw, I'm pretty sure a Zurich museum would have no trouble displaying artwork depicting Mary as a whore. Not unless muslims, rightly, get upset about the depiction of the most revered woman in Islam.

But it gets worse:

"Any person who publicly incites hatred or discrimination against a person or a group of persons on the grounds of their race, ethnic origin, religion or sexual orientation, any person who publicly disseminates ideologies that have as their object the systematic denigration or defamation of that person or group of persons, any person who with the same objective organises, encourages or participates in propaganda campaigns, any person who publicly denigrates or discriminates against another or a group of persons on the grounds of their race, ethnic origin, religion or sexual orientation in a manner that violates human dignity, whether verbally, in writing or pictorially, by using gestures, through acts of aggression or by other means, or any person who on any of these grounds denies, trivialises or seeks justification for genocide or other crimes against humanity, any person who refuses to provide a service to another on the grounds of that person’s race, ethnic origin, religion or sexual orientation when that service is intended to be provided to the general public, is liable to a custodial sentence not exceeding three years or to a monetary penalty."

You can drive a Mac truck through that. What does "inciting discrimination" mean? Are the people campaigning to have the veil banned in Switzerland not inciting discrimination?

And, for the record, I despise people who mock any and all religions (although valid criticism is very important). But criminalizing mockery and claiming to believe in freedom of speech? That's rich.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#195
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom of speech is protected only so much as the protection is enforced. It is not some sort of fundamental law. With weak-kneed politicians and indifferent population it inevitably erodes.

It actually is. It's a fundamental human right under the European Convention on Human Rights (to which Switzerland is a party) , Art. 10: "ARTICLE 10 Freedom of expression 1. Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This Article shall not preve…

See Article 261 of the Swiss penal code.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#196
post #183

To be clear, what happened to this kid is horrible and just demonstrates that we have to get serious on this problem. However this comment annoyed me: "«I'm in Switzerland, not China,» Gerber replied. «I can say what I want here.»" You can tell this kid grew up in the la-la land that is the West, particularly Europe. I find this comment to be an infuriating mix anivete and patronizing. For the naïveté Switzerland is…

Here, here. You sir have earned 1xvirtual-pint. Very well said.

lol, what's that?

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#197

Legally the university might have done nothing wrong. They had advised him to unregister to play tricks in order to avoid losing his study rights. A trick that is common if you study at more than one university. And works unless there is any kind of problem. However, the message is: If you deal with China today, either don't think, be a coward or a liar. China is an authoritarian country that increasingly exercises i…

There is no real critique outside certain boundaries e.g., try to say something negative about military in US

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has a lot of problems and bad behavior. Yet we can talk about it without worrying if the us govt is pressuring our employer to fire us, without worrying about the safety of family members & friends living in the us will be rounded up. China is not that place. It's not anti-Chinese rhetoric to point our reality. China is the place where people wonder when the authorities are coming to take you to the re-educati…

> The US has a lot of problems and bad behavior Hahaha. > China is the place where people wonder when the authorities are coming to take you to the re-education camp, hopefully not to be sterilized. You must be joking. Really. A link to NYT and theAtlantic? Stand up comedy might just be your thing.

This is not really the place for this sort of response.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#199

To be clear, what happened to this kid is horrible and just demonstrates that we have to get serious on this problem. However this comment annoyed me: "«I'm in Switzerland, not China,» Gerber replied. «I can say what I want here.»" You can tell this kid grew up in the la-la land that is the West, particularly Europe. I find this comment to be an infuriating mix anivete and patronizing. For the naïveté Switzerland is…

The perfect is not the enemy of the good. "The west" is definitely not a paragon of virtue, all its flaws notwithstanding, is order of magnitude (or two) better than a CCP style government. I would much rather live in "the west", where i am, than in China.
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