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Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

latimes.com

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Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#191

Post by mdorazio »

bwship wrote: post #136
AnotherGoodName wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll point out that the situation is different too. I've lived in Australia and the USA. Australia has more homeless but you will never see 3 miles of tents on major roads or encampments under bridges. Other countries count them as homeless but often they will be cared for and have shelter. The USA is lacking there.

These tent camps are quite new in the US. About 5 years ago, there started to be a tent camp in Seattle, but when I moved to LA there was not tents anywhere (except maybe a few on Skid Row), flash forward to about 2 years ago, and there are now literally miles and miles of tent camps all over Los Angeles. It is one of those things that once it is allowed at all, it quickly becomes overwhelming.

What part of LA are you in? I’ve lived on the west side for the last 13 years and tent camps have been an issue for at least the last 10. They started getting noticeably worse about 5 years ago in line with a rapid rise in the unsheltered population [1].

[1] http://www.laalmanac.com/social/so14.php

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#192

Post by gruez »

Arrath wrote: post #156
gruez wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good thing that many employers (typically the ones that employ minimum wage workers) allow you to take your paycheck on a prepaid debit card.

Have the near usurious transaction fees typically associated with those cards been regulated away, or are they still yet another way for financial conglomerates to nickel and dime more profits from the most vulnerable, while masquerading as a better option? I last had my pay deposited onto a prepaid card in 2009, so the laws may indeed have changed. Back then those fees were overly restrictive and quickly ate into my…

> Have the near usurious transaction fees typically associated with those cards been regulated away, or are they still yet another way for financial conglomerates to nickel and dime more profits from the most vulnerable, while masquerading as a better option?

I'm having trouble finding the source, but my recollection from a planet money podcast is that they're free to withdraw if you use their network of ATMs, but otherwise charge you a few dollars per transaction. As for whether it's better, maybe? It's certainly worse than a no-fee banking account at a local credit union (but with limited ATM access) or a big bank (but with a fee and/or minimum deposit requirements), but it's better than holding a wad of cash on your body.

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#193

Post by Overton-Window »

gwright wrote: post #165
chrisseaton wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First please note that America has fewer homeless people than many European nations or Canada Wow that's a real reality check right there. I would have never guessed that Sweden had 2x the homeless of the US. Thank you.

I don't know how valid those stats are but those are per capita numbers not absolute numbers, so not twice as many total homeless: Sweden: 10,230,000/10,000*36 = 36,828 homeless US: 328,200,000/10,000*17 = 649,740 homeless

For comparison: there are single neighbourhoods in California with >36k homeless. Congregation is the real issue.

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#194

Post by User23 »

cduzz wrote: post #100
pineconewarrior wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, that job may not offer the person any net quality-of-life improvements. Flipping that burger for 30 hours a week does not give them enough money to find housing. Now they're still broke but they're also tired, smelly, and angry.

How do you cash a paycheck if you are without an address or a bank account? How do you establish that you are a citizen and are legally able to take a job if you are unable to safely store your documents? How do you get health care, inclusive of mental health care, if you are unable to pay for it? If you are without a secure residence, how do you know when to wake up, how do you clean up, put on fresh clothing, and g…

The answer is you address each of those issues in order of dependencies. Pragmatically speaking, since these persons have a demonstrated incapacity for participating in our society in the usual way, that will have to happen in some kind of institutional setting or it won’t happen at all.

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#195

Post by akira2501 »

bwship wrote: post #136
AnotherGoodName wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll point out that the situation is different too. I've lived in Australia and the USA. Australia has more homeless but you will never see 3 miles of tents on major roads or encampments under bridges. Other countries count them as homeless but often they will be cared for and have shelter. The USA is lacking there.

These tent camps are quite new in the US. About 5 years ago, there started to be a tent camp in Seattle, but when I moved to LA there was not tents anywhere (except maybe a few on Skid Row), flash forward to about 2 years ago, and there are now literally miles and miles of tent camps all over Los Angeles. It is one of those things that once it is allowed at all, it quickly becomes overwhelming.

> It is one of those things that once it is allowed at all, it quickly becomes overwhelming.

I believe this is mostly due to the effect of the ruling in the landmark "Martin v City of Boise" [1] case.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_v._Boise

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#196

Post by AngryData »

daenz wrote: post #54
dyingkneepad wrote: post #23

As a non-American person living in the US, I fail to understand one thing about its society. When I walk around town I see tons and tons of places advertising jobs, for simple stuff like kitchen, moving stuff around, etc. I even recently saw a store with a "talk to the manager and start working right now" sign. And then I walk around the streets and see all these homeless. It seems like a paradox to me, but I am obvi…

You're going to get a lot of replies indicating that the problem belongs squarely on society's shoulders (healthcare, capitalism, drugs). One cause that you will probably not see highlighted is the devaluation of autonomy and personal responsibility, and it's absolutely devastating effect on the human spirit to progress.

I would argue that the US pushes autonomy and personal responsibility much much farther than most developed countries.

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#197

Post by JohnTHaller »

gruez wrote: post #120
JohnTHaller wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gym memberships can be had for $20/month or less, and provide a full bathroom facility for showering and grooming. The gyms near me in NYC all require a permanent address, NY state ID, and a credit card.

even ones like YMCA?

I'm not sure offhand. Looking at the local YMCA site it's $66/mo for a single location, asks for an address to sign up, and can do credit/debit as well as drafts from checking/savings account, so it appears you have to be "banked".

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#198

Post by mc32 »

bwship wrote: post #136
AnotherGoodName wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll point out that the situation is different too. I've lived in Australia and the USA. Australia has more homeless but you will never see 3 miles of tents on major roads or encampments under bridges. Other countries count them as homeless but often they will be cared for and have shelter. The USA is lacking there.

These tent camps are quite new in the US. About 5 years ago, there started to be a tent camp in Seattle, but when I moved to LA there was not tents anywhere (except maybe a few on Skid Row), flash forward to about 2 years ago, and there are now literally miles and miles of tent camps all over Los Angeles. It is one of those things that once it is allowed at all, it quickly becomes overwhelming.

IIRC the tents started right after the occupy Wall Street movement. Often they’d camp next to homeless or homeless would join their camps and it morphed. There have also been drives to deliver tents to homeless…

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#199

Post by pengaru »

dragontamer wrote: post #87
belval wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The base issue is usually mental illness worsened by substance abuse, without a strong social net and with readily available street drugs these people are pretty much unfit for any kind of work.

There's a difference between chronic homelessness (which is probably caused by mental illness or drug abuse), and "typical" homelessness. "Typical" people are homeless for only a few days before someone in their social circle rescues them (and its not a happy story either: it could be that they tried living on the streets but ultimately decided that living with their alcoholic and abusive husband is superior to livin…

> a pathway should be figured out to try to find a way to make them productive members of society.

I think this attitude is a major component of the fundamental problem.

Why not just accept that some proportion of society is unproductive for whatever reason, and spend tax dollars to keep them minimally housed, bathed, and clothed. Period. It's not extravagant, it's not spacious, it's just a cramped SRO any citizen can get a room in.

So much of "productive" employed society is just inefficient borderline pointless busy work anyways, and automation will be increasingly decimating these jobs, it's not something we can continue ignoring and treating as a "homeless problem".

Admit it, most of modern society already isn't productive, get over it. I can't honestly say all my colleagues in the tech industry were net productive. There was a whole lot of pissing money down the drain on insignificant contributions, aka warm chairs, aka plants. If tech companies can afford to pay tech salaries for nothing in return, they can pay more taxes to keep the streets, parks, sidewalks, and beaches clean and those down on their luck bathed and groomed enough to interview for a fake job.

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#200

Post by joshmaker »

dyingkneepad wrote: post #23

As a non-American person living in the US, I fail to understand one thing about its society. When I walk around town I see tons and tons of places advertising jobs, for simple stuff like kitchen, moving stuff around, etc. I even recently saw a store with a "talk to the manager and start working right now" sign. And then I walk around the streets and see all these homeless. It seems like a paradox to me, but I am obvi…

These jobs almost certainly also want someone who is clean and reliable.

If you are homeless, you might not have access to a shower or laundry facilities. You might have to rely on public transit (which is unreliable in many American cities), or you might not be able to afford public transit, so it might be hard to arrive on time. All of which will put you at a strong disadvantage compared to any other applicant.

If you do go to a job interview you might have to leave all your positions in the street where without you watching over them, they could be stolen. If you have a pet or a child, there might not be anyone trustworthy willing to take care of them while you are away.

If you pass the first round of interviews, you might need a phone number where they can call you for a follow up. But what happens if you can't afford a phone plan? Or if you have a phone, but don't have easy access to a location where you can charge it?

Finally day after day of living on the street, having very poor nutrition, not getting enough quality sleep, dealing with extreme stress, can all cause mental health issues.

There are lots of obstacles to getting a job when you are homeless. And the longer you go without a job, the harder it is to get a new job.

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