Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#191

Post by bruceb » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 5:57 PM UTC

giarc wrote: post #44

hereforphone wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have taken both shots. But I wouldn't call them "safe", as they are young and approved under emergency guidelines. They are probably safe, but nobody knows that right now.

There's been nearly 4 billion shots delivered across the world in the past 8 months. I suspect if they were to cause great harm, we would have known by now.

If they are safe, then there is no reason the vax makers should be protected from liability then. At the moment we could be mandated to take something yet have no recourse if something happens down the line.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#192

Post by roberttod » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 5:57 PM UTC

criddell wrote: post #11

Whatarethese wrote: post #2

Good. Its time to stop messing around with this. The vaccines are tested and are safe.

Why are the major COVID-19 vaccines still under FDA emergency use authorization guidelines? What's preventing the FDA from dropping those special rules and treating the vaccine like every other vaccine?

The documentation required for approval was submitted by the pharma companies a long time ago. Many experts, including some previous FDA commissioners have stated these vaccines should have been approved by now given the data submitted. The current FDA commissioner has said it will take until January, without explaining why it's taking them so long.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#193

Post by leereeves » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 5:57 PM UTC

_djo_ wrote: post #178

Panther34543 wrote: post #156

Ugg, why doesn't anybody, whether it be government officials, employers, whatever, ever consider those with natural immunity? It's like some weird joke. The official CDC estimates over 115 MILLION natural infections in the U.S. alone, and that only accounts for February 2020-March 2021 . It doesn't account for all the infections before February 2020 (I and most of my coworkers in downtown SF got it in January) nor an…

Natural immunity is not as well understood as vaccine response and longevity for COVID-19. There's also increasing evidence that newer variants like Delta present a significant reinfection risk for those who were infected with the wildtype or even Alpha six or more months before.

Delta also presents a risk of breakthrough infection for vaccinated people.

And that seems likely to lead to the development of new strains against which the current vaccines are ineffective, as the virus mutates in vaccinated people.

I'm vaccinated myself, but I don't count on that providing protection for long. I expect it to be more like the flu, for which yearly vaccines are required against whatever strains are expected to be common that year.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#194

Post by fragmede » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 5:57 PM UTC

mtoner23 wrote: post #112

endisneigh wrote: post #91

How are they going to even know you took the vaccine? Honor system? If they force you to disclose doesn't that break HIPAA? If it doesn't break HIPAA, then doesn't this create a precedent that employers can gain your medical history with arbitrary mandates? Seems like a lose-lose.

Hippa only applies to medical professionals i believe. Employers can always ask for your medical records. This has always been the case.

It might be worth noting that FAANG companies with huge campuses have medical offices on campus, so I'd assume employees aren't showing their proof of vaccination to a random person, but to some sort of medical professional who I'd think is bound by HIPPA.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#195

Post by h_anna_h » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 5:57 PM UTC

OgAstorga wrote: post #86

azangru wrote: post #39

So if an employee develops one of the rare adverse events, will Google be liable for damages?

I don’t think so. Everyone is free to leave if the don’t like the new policies. It’s not like there is a tight market for highly skilled software engineers

This is a concerning argument. We have laws regarding labor for a reason. "I just decided to pay you below the minimum wage and not give you any days off" has not been considered acceptable for decades despite the employees being "free to leave if they do not like the new policies".

Edit: I am arguing against the argument itself in general. Not specifically for the vaccine case.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#196

Post by UncleMeat » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 5:58 PM UTC

aaomidi wrote: post #82

BHSPitMonkey wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If all of Google's intelligent employees were to rise up and seize control of the company today, they would enact the same office vaccination requirement that Sundar is announcing here.

Probably, but it would be a communal requirement rather than a top-down requirement.

I'm pretty confident that AWU supports this policy.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#197

Post by thisiscorrect » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 5:58 PM UTC

_djo_ wrote: post #178

Panther34543 wrote: post #156

Ugg, why doesn't anybody, whether it be government officials, employers, whatever, ever consider those with natural immunity? It's like some weird joke. The official CDC estimates over 115 MILLION natural infections in the U.S. alone, and that only accounts for February 2020-March 2021 . It doesn't account for all the infections before February 2020 (I and most of my coworkers in downtown SF got it in January) nor an…

Natural immunity is not as well understood as vaccine response and longevity for COVID-19. There's also increasing evidence that newer variants like Delta present a significant reinfection risk for those who were infected with the wildtype or even Alpha six or more months before.

But there's also evidence it presents a significant risk for people who were vaccinated against the earlier variants too.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#198

Post by calvano915 » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 5:58 PM UTC

bradstewart wrote: post #144

sharken wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is not the vaccine by itself, it is that you no longer have a say in what happens with your body. I guess switching jobs is the only cure for this unfortunate trend.

I don't understand this argument. This isn't the first time vaccines have been required. For instance, every state has required vaccines for school attendance--from kindergarten through college. Here's the list for Texas: https://dshs.texas.gov/immunize/school/school-requirements.a... Are you opposed to those mandates as well, or is this one different?

Vaccines that are under EUA status?

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#199

Post by sharken » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 5:58 PM UTC

bradstewart wrote: post #144

sharken wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is not the vaccine by itself, it is that you no longer have a say in what happens with your body. I guess switching jobs is the only cure for this unfortunate trend.

I don't understand this argument. This isn't the first time vaccines have been required. For instance, every state has required vaccines for school attendance--from kindergarten through college. Here's the list for Texas: https://dshs.texas.gov/immunize/school/school-requirements.a... Are you opposed to those mandates as well, or is this one different?

This one is different. In my country in 2018, deaths caused by the flu was more than 50% of all registered Corona deaths. Just that season alone.

Now some wants to mandate Corona vaccines, but then what about flu vaccines ?

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#200

Post by BHSPitMonkey » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 5:58 PM UTC

rolobio wrote: post #109

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only way I know to prove someone received a vaccine is for them to turn over their medical history. What if companies start refusing to hire someone because they have a bad medical history (insurance costs anyone)? When you're vaccinated, you receive a small official card with the vaccination details. In the United States, the vaccines are free. This has nothing to do with your general medical history or medica…

Well thanks for the downvote. But isn't that card part of your medical history? What if they need proof you are vaccinated against measles? After all, its a proven vaccine...

> But isn't that card part of your medical history?

It's the narrowest, most specific data point possible to establish that you won't put other innocent people in the building at risk of a new outbreak.

> What if they do other things after this thing?

What if dogs had antlers? What if sidewalks were made of cheese?