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Agile at 20: The Failed Rebellion

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Re: Agile at 20: The Failed Rebellion

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure I just gave you 3 examples where no one cared how much X would cost. "We want it by Q3, figure it out". Where is the documentation? "¯\_(ツ)_/¯". Who built the old system? "Last one died in 98". Who knows how X works? "¯\_(ツ)_/¯, you're smart, you'll figure it out, just remember, Q3". As I said you're either lucky or speaking from the so called "top management" perspective. Things look very different for a…

Yeah, average Joe in your examples here isn’t being given the whole picture. I’m not sure what your point actually is; are you saying that since Story Points don’t help you specifically, they’re a waste? Don’t you get how myopic that is?

My point is that they are often as relevant to reality as the flying spaghetti monster to spaghetti. Read my previous comments dump whatever you have in memory in an s3 bucket? Story point 0-give me 10 minutes. Then why did it take a week and a half? Cause someone from another team across the world has to grant permissions which was 3 days of discussions, then the VPN was messed up, which took another 2 teams on the other end of the planet 4 days to fix, 10 minutes to code it and 10 minutes for the cicd pipeline to deploy it. 0 story points, right. That's my entire problem with evangelistic crap like (fr)agile, story points, sprints, epics and so on: they do not reflect reality in any shape or form.

Re: Agile at 20: The Failed Rebellion

#192
post #57

The fundamental problem with Agile is the fundamental problem with all product development: The customer doesn't know what they want Agile assumes as a first principal that including the customer throughout the development process will align the building team and the customer to come to the same conclusion. This is almost never actually true. Having built and managed a lot of products I can state fairly confidently t…

> The fundamental problem with Agile This is not what the article is about. If you look at the Agile Manifesto, it says e.g. - Individuals and interactions over processes and tools - Responding to change over following a plan What you get in quite a few big companies following "Agile" with the air quotes is the opposite: - Processes and tools over individuals and interactions - Following (and making) a plan over resp…

The agile manifesto was the problem. It's a vague as hell set of proscriptions that everybody could project their own ideas on to that got turned into a pseudo-religion.

I once had it used against me to justify not writing tests ("processes and tools!"). We had meetings about bugs instead. Seriously. Complain all you like about perversion, that was a perfectly valid interpretation coz those hallowed commandments are, frankly, ill-defined bollocks.

The principles are better but still suffer the same problem. If the most efficient way to convey information in a dev team is face to face why don't you come over here and I'll whisper my pull request in your ear. Jesus.

There's no point complaining about the perversion of a thing that was never very specific about what it wanted to be in the first place.

Once people (especially managers) get specific about what agile means to them it turns out it means very different things to different people. This is entirely the fault of the originators.

One benefit of Scrum (the catholic church to agile's christian sect) was that it was proscriptive and was specific. Unfortunately it's also a bit shit and its practitioner-priests LOVE to tell you that if it isnt working, well, You Probably Just Weren't Doing It Correctly.

Re: Agile at 20: The Failed Rebellion

#193

I think one of the biggest indications of failure (because it’s been morphed into something shit by all these business manager types, and not because it’s fundamentally flawed) is the fact that we have dedicated “scrum masters” that never rotate.

I’m the only one who find the role (and the name) “scrum master” shocking? First and foremost anyone’s can become a “scrum master” in a few weeks and get a certificate that proves it. I don’t take it seriously because of this. Secondly, we don’t have “linux masters” or “python masters” or whatever; why do we need the silly title of “x master”? Imho, it makes a disservice to the people who actually hold such role.

Re: Agile at 20: The Failed Rebellion

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know why it's "easy" to blame "management"? Because they often don't understand the technology question or even what the issue is, but insist to intercept every decision.

The air quotes sell it. It's easy to blame management because developers and engineers haven't the foggiest idea what management actually does. Instead of engaging with that problem, they retreat to themselves where they hiss the name management in dark corners. Fact is: Developers are incapable of self organising, and would drown overnight without management's stiff hand. I absolutely hate how accurate that is becau…

> Fact is: Developers are incapable of self organising, and would drown overnight without management's stiff hand.

If that's true in an organization, its only because either management has failed to hire developers that can self organize, or management has constructed structures and incentives which inhibit self-organization by developers. Usually, both. Often deliberately, because line managers are often more comfortable passively recieving directives from above and crafting directives for below than any other mechanism of management, since this minimizes conflicts with those in organizational power positions.

Re: Agile at 20: The Failed Rebellion

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some developers might love just mindlessly doing trivial tickets week after week, since it means they don't have to worry about anything since the job is so easy. But others will view that as soul crushing, you can't say it isn't soul crushing for them.

Being able to break down a complex technical problem into mostly one point tickets doesn't mean it is easy or mindless, just that you're good at planning and executing.

There’s a difference between breaking down a complex technical problem in a few days (my approach) and doing it on the fly while doing a sprint planning. Most of Agile people want you to give estimates and simple dumb tasks that break down a complex one; this is fine... but hey, it will take me a week to do so! This is not OK for them (they want the estimate while doing the sprint planning).

Re: Agile at 20: The Failed Rebellion

#196
The problem I see with various flavors of Agile is that they don't fit in particularly well with how things actually get done at companies.

For example, teams running Agile are very reluctant to give both a delivery date and a fixed set of features. They're willing to promise one or the other, but not both. And that's a problem, because the whole rest of the organization really wants to know when they can announce the release to customers. Planning for releases tends to be a really big deal, the pressure to make promises of both functionality and delivery dates is very strong.

Also, Agile methodologies tend to assume you are in close contact with the customer, who can tell you what they actually want and decide how things should work. But this is rarely the case; typically you have a PM or something like that who is in touch with the customers, and is supposed to understand what they want. But this person is rarely senior enough to actually make decisions; important decisions are made by a dev manager or a project lead or someone like that, with the PM just providing input and perspective.

Finally, Agile has this notion that everything is supposed to be handled informally, verbally, person to person. And that's fine for small tweaks to the product. But as soon as you start building something big enough that it takes months and crosses team boundaries, it gets really useful to have an actual document explaining how something is supposed to work. Such a document is an invaluable record on what has actually been decided, and anyone joining the project or wanting to contribute to it absolutely should read it. But Agile tends to discourage creating such documents in the first place.

Given that Agile clashes so hard with how actual organizations get things done, it rarely gets adopted in anything approaching a pure form. The practices that tend to get picked up might be called Agile-light: sprints, daily meetings, and task estimation in points.

Re: Agile at 20: The Failed Rebellion

#197
In my opinion the “problem” (what problem?) is not Agile but the mismatch between what tech companies want and what technical people usually want:

- tech companies want to push decent features live every 2 weeks (the usual sprint duration). They follow the mantra “move fast and break things”. Technical debt is fine for them as long as money flows. They want to beat their competitors. This makes totally sense from a business perspective, of course

- certain tech people (in my experience) don’t want to move fast and break things. They don’t want to break things, they want to produce products of quality, stable, with minimal defects... if that comes fast that’s fine, but usually it takes time to produce something of quality (at least for average developers—-I am one, and the vast majority of developers are). This makes sense from the point of view of someone who cares about their craft

That’s the mismatch. Companies love Agile (even if it’s done wrongly); tech employees usually hate the very notion of estimates, sprints (are we even in a rush?l, story points, etc.

Re: Agile at 20: The Failed Rebellion

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can find a ton of devs paying lip service disagreeing, but the second they utter “we need to rewrite this in…” the facade falls apart.

Management in turn doesn't pay any attention whatsoever to the technology. They have no idea how quality and productivity is influenced by outdated or poor choices or simply a lack of investment into maintenance. You need people that care about the how you do it as much about the why and the what . Everything else is going to be disfunctional rather soon.

It’s part of your job to explain that to them. And you have to do it in business terms, that is, how it will impact budget and schedule for the project. And prepare for questions like “ok, you have convinced me that Kotlin is superior to Java, but you are the only one in the team with any Kotlin experience, and we have a rather hard deadline for this project in 9 months. Are you hundred percent sure that we will both manage to train the team and deliver in that timeframe? And you know Karl, who’s retiring in a few years, he doesn’t seem to be very eager to learn something new. And he’s a damn productive Java programmer.”

Re: Agile at 20: The Failed Rebellion

#199

The problem I see with various flavors of Agile is that they don't fit in particularly well with how things actually get done at companies. For example, teams running Agile are very reluctant to give both a delivery date and a fixed set of features. They're willing to promise one or the other, but not both. And that's a problem, because the whole rest of the organization really wants to know when they can announce th…

The fundamental insight behind what became agile is that it isn't actually possible to have both a guaranteed delivery date and a guaranteed set of delivered features. The reality of software development just doesn't allow it.

Businesses don't "get things done" by operating as if they can have both. That's why projects fail, businesses cut corners, and then inevitably ship broken products or don't ship at all.

Most of the "agile methodologies" are nonsense dreamt up by borderline con artists attempting to sell their services. The fact that it's an either / or choice - and that nothing can get around that choice - is inherent in the nature of the work.

Re: Agile at 20: The Failed Rebellion

#200

That is too bad. When I first read the Manifesto, I said “These folks got it!” I tend to work that way, now. Myself. Things get difficult in teams. Especially cross-disciplinary teams, and aggregate efforts. Much as we like to denigrate managers (DISCLAIMER: I was one) , they are necessary; and not as a “necessary evil.” Good managers can be amazingly effective and well worth it. Unfortunately, like in any vocation,…

> Good managers can be amazingly effective and well worth it.

Good Xs (where X = developers, managers, designers, etc.) can be amazingly effective and well worth it. This is obvious. The vast majority of managers out there are average, and so they are a necessary evil. Compare this to the situation: the vast majority of developers out there are average (I include myself in this group )... and this is fine, they are not seen as a “necessary evil”.

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