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A Chemical Hunger: Mysteries

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Re: A Chemical Hunger: Mysteries

#191

Post by tsimionescu »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #189
kiba wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK? You and I can do these things, but we are outliers. For example, 750 minutes of exercise per week is a lot is what I estimated from a study for diminishing return for health. That's 12.5 hours, let alone meeting the weekly minimum requirement. Most people are busy, they have jobs or families or kids. Yet decades ago, these same people aren't fat. We all know this. It's why there are 1000 books about tricks and di…

No. We're not outliers. Except from the psychological point of view, sure. Which is where this started. We've got 1000 voices reinforcing the view that some magic pill exists, and that has its effect. Smugness is nowhere in sight. More like resignation and sadness.

Why do you believe this is a psychological problem and not a physiological problem?

Re: A Chemical Hunger: Mysteries

#192

Post by briefcomment »

tomerv wrote: post #183
briefcomment wrote: post #102

> "Something seems to have changed. But surprisingly, we don’t seem to have any idea what that thing was." We have ideas. Polyunsaturated fats (shortening, margarine, soybean oil, canola oil, even chicken fat) is a promising culprit. Consumption of those have skyrocketed in the last half of the 20th century [1]. Full study here [2]. It seems that polyunsaturated fats induce hibernation like symptoms, which could expl…

I feel that this was covered by the article (there's a second part) with the conclusion that this cannot be the main factor of the obesity epidemic. Margarine consumption was much higher in the 1970s than today, but obesity today is much higher.

I don't see any of this covered in the second or third article (apart from a comment in the second article that provides some additional interesting details on this hypothesis).

There may be a generational effect at play, causing the symptoms to be more pronounced in the offspring of the high margarine cohort. Certain interventions effect second and third generation offspring. You can induce sterility in the third generation by an intervention in the first generation for example.

That being said, canola oils and soybean oil are more used than ever.

Re: A Chemical Hunger: Mysteries

#193

Post by JoeAltmaier »

tsimionescu wrote: post #191
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. We're not outliers. Except from the psychological point of view, sure. Which is where this started. We've got 1000 voices reinforcing the view that some magic pill exists, and that has its effect. Smugness is nowhere in sight. More like resignation and sadness.

Why do you believe this is a psychological problem and not a physiological problem?

I believe for the vast majority of people, buckling down and doing some hard exercise would make a world of difference. The greatest obstacle to that is a mental one, reinforced by culture and the medical infrastructure.

Re: A Chemical Hunger: Mysteries

#194

Post by a0-prw »

joseluis wrote: post #78
guerrilla wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you do more to motivate us to watch the nearly 1.5 hour video than "insulin"? Who is this guy and what's the thesis? Summary?

Ok, I didn't realize it might be necessary, since the speaker is so good and engaging since the first minute but I'll try. He basically exposes the underlying physiological mechanisms of fasting and nutrition. And puts it in context of our biological evolution and current first-world diseases. Explains the enormous power fasting has for healing the physiology, regulating insulin levels, even reverting insulin resista…

I use fasting to control my weight and have done so for more than 10 years. There are other benefits than weight (fat) loss. Also noone is trying to sell you anything except maybe get you to click on a few yt videos ;)

Re: A Chemical Hunger: Mysteries

#195

Post by tsimionescu »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #193
tsimionescu wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you believe this is a psychological problem and not a physiological problem?

I believe for the vast majority of people, buckling down and doing some hard exercise would make a world of difference. The greatest obstacle to that is a mental one, reinforced by culture and the medical infrastructure.

Hard exercise is the least efficient form of weight control - it is hard, it is unpleasant when you're starting out, it takes loads of time, it has a risk of injury, it is very likely to make you overeat.

Why, of all things, do you think forcing people to do hard exercise would be effective for the vast majority of people, compared to, say, an improved diet?

Re: A Chemical Hunger: Mysteries

#196

Post by tsimionescu »

tsimionescu wrote: post #195
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe for the vast majority of people, buckling down and doing some hard exercise would make a world of difference. The greatest obstacle to that is a mental one, reinforced by culture and the medical infrastructure.

Hard exercise is the least efficient form of weight control - it is hard, it is unpleasant when you're starting out, it takes loads of time, it has a risk of injury, it is very likely to make you overeat. Why, of all things, do you think forcing people to do hard exercise would be effective for the vast majority of people, compared to, say, an improved diet?

'Forcing people' should have been 'having people force themselves', too late to edit now.

Re: A Chemical Hunger: Mysteries

#197

Post by JoeAltmaier »

tsimionescu wrote: post #195
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe for the vast majority of people, buckling down and doing some hard exercise would make a world of difference. The greatest obstacle to that is a mental one, reinforced by culture and the medical infrastructure.

Hard exercise is the least efficient form of weight control - it is hard, it is unpleasant when you're starting out, it takes loads of time, it has a risk of injury, it is very likely to make you overeat. Why, of all things, do you think forcing people to do hard exercise would be effective for the vast majority of people, compared to, say, an improved diet?

All those things are hyperbole, repeated endlessly to warn people away from exercise. It's a cultural thing, and we're embedded in that culture. But exercise is the normal state for humans, and to think otherwise is a weird local phenomenon.

The mirage of 'an improved diet' is the current fad idea and the topic of this conversation. Why doesn't it work for most people? Why are there 1000 books about it, and still no consensus?

Re: A Chemical Hunger: Mysteries

#198

Post by tsimionescu »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #197
tsimionescu wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard exercise is the least efficient form of weight control - it is hard, it is unpleasant when you're starting out, it takes loads of time, it has a risk of injury, it is very likely to make you overeat. Why, of all things, do you think forcing people to do hard exercise would be effective for the vast majority of people, compared to, say, an improved diet?

All those things are hyperbole, repeated endlessly to warn people away from exercise. It's a cultural thing, and we're embedded in that culture. But exercise is the normal state for humans, and to think otherwise is a weird local phenomenon. The mirage of 'an improved diet' is the current fad idea and the topic of this conversation. Why doesn't it work for most people? Why are there 1000 books about it, and still no…

I'm not sure who is supposed to be repeating this endlessly to warn people away, but most people discover these things if they actually try hard exercise for themselves.

Re: A Chemical Hunger: Mysteries

#199

Post by Azrathud »

Tabular-Iceberg wrote: post #63

I know exactly why I'm fat. I consistently continue eating after already feeling full. Regardless of whether it's socially designated as a "health food" or "junk food". Most of the pleasure of eating and drinking comes from the first few bites and sips, after that the senses start dulling and diminishing returns start to set in, so it's really no big loss to stop when full. Certainly not worth getting indigestion ove…

Not sure if this is relevant but these things have helped me with suppressing appetite in order of commitment/severity:

- Extra protein even a protein powder, egg

- Complex carbs like beans

- No added sugar

- No processed food

...

- Intranasal insulin (diy - i am not diabetic)

- Adderall

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