What really happened to Jack Ma? • Hacker News Board

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#191

Post by 74d-fe6-2c6 » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 7:52 AM UTC

rileymat2 wrote: post #130

74d-fe6-2c6 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how would this impact the stock? it didn't seem to have responded yet to those news. shouldn't that be the case if those theories were true? lots of large investors should have info on Ma's and Alibaba's fate.

It may be affecting the stock, if you compare the last year to the tech stock prices, it is down significantly. https://www.google.com/finance/quote/BABA:NYSE?window=5Y&com...

that's not much, though. alledgedly, a socialist party is taking control of a highly valued capitalist company - shouldn't that provoke a stronger response?

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#192

Post by Aeolos » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 8:17 AM UTC

Leparamour wrote: post #156

Aeolos wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that really the case? https://www.pnas.org/content/116/34/16793 "Police violence is a leading cause of death for young men in the United States. Over the life course, about 1 in every 1,000 black men can expect to be killed by police." https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56834733 According to this ^, the police in the US is 3.5x more likely to kill civilians compared to other developed nations. (It would be i…

>"Police violence is a leading cause of death for young men in the United States. Over the life course, about 1 in every 1,000 black men can expect to be killed by police." These soundbytes usually (intentionally) omit half of the story. For example, how many police officers are being killed in encounters with black men? And how many less lethal (for black men) encounters would there be with black men not attacking o…

You are being downvoted because you failed to do bring any evidence to support your assertions and instead resorted to conspiratorial thinking.

Unlike your claim that "journalist never (dare to) ask", the numbers of violence against police are well studied, published and easily available with a search. Had you done that, you'd have realized that your basic premise is wrong: violence _by_ police is significantly higher than violence _against_ police.

Indeed, police work is _less_ dangerous than e.g. farming, construction, trucking and sales.

https://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfar0020.pdf

Edit: if you are interested, check also this https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-06-23/how-da...

Logging, fishing, aircraft, roofing, recycling, even landscaping is more dangerous than police work in terms of fatalities. Yet you don't hear politicians complain about the dangers of landscaping work, do you? Why do you think is that?

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#193

Post by andreskytt » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 8:20 AM UTC

MsMowz wrote: post #184

noone321 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't know where to start with this. The short answer is no. The long answer is Stalin's supporters said the exact same things. And it's not a surprise -- Xi is borrowing a lot from Stalin's centralization playbook, including "restructuring" the PLA (i.e., purging generals who weren't loyal to him personally and ensuring he has a Party loyalist on every ship) and developing the rank and file (to replace the…

I think we must have different understandings of what causes power struggles within leadership. The comparison to the 1953-1956 period in the USSR also feels a bit misplaced to me, as although there was a minor power struggle during that period, it didn’t have broad implications the way the death of Mao did. (I also don’t agree that the structure of the CPC is all that similar to the structure of the CPSU during Stal…

Calling what led to tens of executions, had an amnestia releasing 1.2 million criminals amongst the public and had top brass spending days in meetings with emergency support being flown in, minor is an understatement

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#194

Post by rorykoehler » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 9:08 AM UTC

dang wrote: post #185

rorykoehler wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YC got out of China but still invests in Chinese companies. At least that's what the press release that I read said. Is that wrong?

I have no idea. I'm pretty sure YC funded companies all have to be incorporated in the US. But just to repeat the important point, that has literally zero to do with how we moderate these threads. How am I able to say that? Because I'm the one doing the moderation, and I can tell you that "gosh I'd better tell HN commenters not to post flamebait about the great Xi because it might affect some investments I don't know…

OK. For the record I believe you however I would like to clarify I'm not wrong on the facts but I was wrong on the motivations. I hope you understand that the questions aren't personal but a reaction to what is happening in the broader world. What grated me was you calling it nationalism. Calling out that Xi is committing crimes against humanity has nothing to do with nationalism unless you conflate the CCP with China which is a standard tactic of authoritarian regimes. It is quite literally a core tactic in their playbook. Every day we hear new stories about how the propaganda arm of the CCP is subjugating western institutions to do their bidding, using the weakness of the capitalist system and ideology (prioritising financial gain above all else) against us.

All in all I really meant that I appreciate the work that you do. You do an excellent job in maintaining HN as my favourite forum on the internet. I understand this is probably wearing you thin so I'm going to leave it now but I hope you can understand why I felt it necessary to clarify the above.

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#195

Post by kybernetikos » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 9:20 AM UTC

ralusek wrote: post #145

coldtea wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Authoritarianism is possible with most types of government, but is necessary for communism. Only if the people aren't onboard. The whole idea of communism is with people being onboard (and running soviets, worker councils, etc). Some not being onboard is OK - communism is about majority rule, not what some person likes or dislikes. In that, it's like any other system. A modern democracy also doesn't care if somebod…

Majority rule is authoritarianism... If you're gay and can't marry who you want because the majority says so, it doesn't matter if the dictator or your peers told you so. What makes communism necessarily authoritarian, as compared to capitalism (which can be, but is not necessarily authoritarian), is that communism is a prescriptive ideology. It stipulates outcomes regarding distribution of resources, how hierarchies…

There's always pragmatism though - it's possible to say that your end state involves no workers being alienated from their labour, but to allow it for some large number of years on the basis that it will help you get to a good version of the endstate quicker.

A state that governs with a communist endstate in mind might still be regarded as communist, even if they use capitalist policies to get there.

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#196

Post by eric-hu » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 9:51 AM UTC

native_samples wrote: post #121

ipausanius wrote: post #95

Then in May, it was reported that Jack Ma had actually visited Alibaba headquarters for an employee social event. I took this at face value and asked my wife (Chinese) what her opinions were on Ma having not been seen in public for so long. Within a couple of minutes she brought up some Chinese social media posts: video: https://open.163.com/newview/movie/free?pid=TG921CJDP&mid=TG... that do indeed show Ma giving a s…

Is there anywhere in that video or web page that has a date?

The video has overlay text saying it's May 10th, which seems to be a reference to this event:

https://www.reuters.com/technology/jack-ma-makes-rare-visit-...

The project screen behind him in the video looks like it says Aliday 2021 at the top, and the 20 second video clip has subtitles that seem to match what he's saying. The content of what he's saying seems generic, something like "Ali needs to have a singular vision."

I _guess_ it could be real. I wouldn't be surprised if it were a deepfake.

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#197

Post by Phaedor » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 10:21 AM UTC

Jochim wrote: post #74

genmud wrote: post #5

One thing that you learn quickly when traveling the world is how easily one can go from having a good time with your friends, to being in a shitty prison without food, running water or a phone to let your family know if you are dead or alive. I have friends travel to interesting places during times of (relative) stability. To paraphrase one of the guys that I know: "When you travel in some of these places, you exist…

It's kind of intriguing to me because, as a member of a western society, I think we place largely the same expectations on people to conform, the only difference is in how the enforcement is applied. In many countries, cities, and neighbourhoods in "the west" if you aren't white you experience exactly the kind of insecurity you describe elsewhere. There are plenty of incidents where non-white residents are arrested w…

One adjacent example of this is the case of Sirous Asgari, the Iranian scientist who refused to spy on Iran for America. What happened to him is really a disgrace and something one would think could not happen in America.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/09/21/the-man-who-re...

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#198

Post by Jochim » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 12:18 PM UTC

InspiredIdiot wrote: post #129

Jochim wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On an individual basis the rules are often vague and selectively enforced. As a collective institution there was the whole Edward Snowden thing where he pointed out that the NSA had definitely not been following those rules and no one who knew what they were doing seemed particularly keen on stopping them.

That is a big problem but kindof a separate issue. He may have been targeted because he was critical of the government but it's really hard to argue that he didn't do anything against the law. Maybe he should have whistleblower protection but his case isn't as simple as persecution solely for being critical of the government which is what this thread seems to be about.

My point wasn't the treatment of Snowden but rather that the claim that:

> Inside the USA? The rules are far more clear.

Is false. The NSA was/is carrying out a mass spying operation over a number of years and involving hundreds of people that directly contravenes those rules.

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#199

Post by Jochim » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 12:35 PM UTC

mmdoda wrote: post #153

Jochim wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's kind of intriguing to me because, as a member of a western society, I think we place largely the same expectations on people to conform, the only difference is in how the enforcement is applied. In many countries, cities, and neighbourhoods in "the west" if you aren't white you experience exactly the kind of insecurity you describe elsewhere. There are plenty of incidents where non-white residents are arrested w…

I find this to be completely untrue. Anecdotally, my friends from South Sudan, who aren't white, tell me that the unsafest neighborhoods in my country are better than the safest in theirs. This is the same sentiment that I get from most non-white foreigners.

Generally things are "better" here but that doesn't mean the problems don't exist. They might just be less severe or be expressed in a different manner. "Exactly" was probably the wrong word to use. The sentiment I'm arguing against is the idea that "these things don't happen here", which I find is typically an excuse to ignore or downplay the cases where it does happen.

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#200

Post by Jochim » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 12:50 PM UTC

Smithalicious wrote: post #159

Jochim wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's kind of intriguing to me because, as a member of a western society, I think we place largely the same expectations on people to conform, the only difference is in how the enforcement is applied. In many countries, cities, and neighbourhoods in "the west" if you aren't white you experience exactly the kind of insecurity you describe elsewhere. There are plenty of incidents where non-white residents are arrested w…

What about all the neighborhoods that are dangerous to white people? I white person has a higher chance of getting in serious danger in a majority black ghetto than a black person would in virtually any majority white neighborhood.

The difference is that a white person in a black neighbourhood will be put in danger by the criminal activity of private citizens. A black person in a white neighbourhood will be put in danger by an agent of the state who is purportedly responsible for dealing with criminality. The white person will have the backing of the state when seeking justice while the black person will be fighting the state.

In terms of the typical outcomes, in the first case those people are rightly considered criminals and will be held accountable if caught. In the second there is usually no accountability even though we know who carried out the action.