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‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

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Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#191

Post by klipklop »

philote wrote: post #101
klipklop wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody wants to give up a something once it becomes a part of their life that they enjoy. The FANG workers got a taste of not having a daily long commute and don't want to give this small life improvement back. Getting back several hours of your life is pretty big. FANG companies however have gotten a taste of nearly unlimited power and have not heard "no" in years. They too don't want to give this up. This is why th…

Before the pandemic FANGs seemed to want everyone in the office as much as possible. That's why they have their own cafeterias/restaurants, daycare, workout rooms, etc. They wanted employees in the office, working a minimum of 40 hours a week. I'm guessing even though remote work is going fine for now, they're concerned they're not going to be able to keep getting over 40 hours of week out of employees. (This is conj…

Sure it's N=1, but I worked more than 40 hours every single week when I was at a FANG. I used to laugh at all the perks because who actually had the time to use most of them other than interns.

Times I used a climbing wall or nap pod: 0

In the end even the free lunch was annoying. (Yes I am going to complain about "free" food.) It just lead to short lunches where people go back to their desk as soon as they could.

I love the social aspect of lunch and it's the highlight of my day to eat with friends. When you are trapped on campus that rarely happens. I was immediately happier when I left and got the social aspect of the middle of my day back. Went from taking like 20-30 minute lunches to like 70. Leaving the office and eating lunch with good friends a few times a week is a huge moral boost over waiting in some silly named tech cafeteria.

Don't get me wrong pre-FANG I dreamed of how nice it would be to eat at on campus free cafes. Later on I realized it was mostly there to keep you from taking a long lunch stuck in traffic.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#192

Post by srswtf123 »

throwaway743 wrote: post #134
lkrubner wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"destroy morale for the remaining" This depends on how you define morale. Morale can be thought of as the willingness of people to make difficult sacrifices to maintain community ties, in the sense offered by the essay "Why Strict Churches Are Strong": https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/230409?jou... . In that essay, they make the point that there are no freeloaders in a strict church, and that is what…

I mean, your examples of organizations are homogeneous in their nature, and borderline cult level communal. Unless you're in management or one of those workers who's an over zealous corporate kool-aid drinking yes-man who screams about company culture and has substituted any outside social life with the office and coworkers, these examples might be extreme and irrelevant. We're all slowly dying, and personally, I val…

> I value having more control over what little time I have left alive

This right here is the entire argument. It's about control, and nothing more.

The pandemic displaced a large group of socially successful people from the social hierarchy. Those people want to return to the old normal because they want their status back. They want control back. "You'll do what you're told because I said so, that's why." lies at the heart of it.

Some of those displaced people have been revealed as frauds: they don't actually contribute value that is commensurate with their position in the hierarchy. And some of those who report to them have had just about enough of their shit.

We're collectively asked to give up our lives to these companies. To willingly give over our ability to determine how we order our days. To look the other way as our various employers build a literal dystopia.

Yeah, no thanks. I'll stay in control of myself from now on.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#193

Post by wil421 »

achow wrote: post #166
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #42

In my experience at least talking to some younger people there is a clear dichotomy: despite all the talk about Gen Z being "digital natives", people new in their career are much hungrier to get back into the office because they don't yet have good career networks built up and they're eager for mentorship. It is older, or at least more established workers who are less keen on that. I don't think FAANGs will have any…

From a single, young: I miss the office for.. - Free and convenient food. - Social chatter & engagement. - Making friends with employees who I don't know and connecting with new employees. - Work life separation (balance). - Proper workstation, climate controlled environment. - Sense of belonging - team outing, after hours beers.. - Intra and inter company sports and games. - Meeting potential dates. [Not me. Just em…

Sounds like you need some hobbies. Most of the things you state I get from my hobbies.

Do you not live in a place with climate control? At home I make the temperature decisions not the facility folk.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#194

Post by icedchai »

achow wrote: post #166
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #42

In my experience at least talking to some younger people there is a clear dichotomy: despite all the talk about Gen Z being "digital natives", people new in their career are much hungrier to get back into the office because they don't yet have good career networks built up and they're eager for mentorship. It is older, or at least more established workers who are less keen on that. I don't think FAANGs will have any…

From a single, young: I miss the office for.. - Free and convenient food. - Social chatter & engagement. - Making friends with employees who I don't know and connecting with new employees. - Work life separation (balance). - Proper workstation, climate controlled environment. - Sense of belonging - team outing, after hours beers.. - Intra and inter company sports and games. - Meeting potential dates. [Not me. Just em…

I'm not so young any more, but I miss getting out of the house more during the day. The separation between work and home spaces is pretty important. After almost 16 months of this, working from home has simply become old.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#196

Post by nrmitchi »

okareaman wrote: post #161

I was extremely lucky to WFH during the first 12 years of my software career. When I finally got a job in an office I was shocked at how awful it was. The 2 hours commuting every workday, the flickering fluorescent lights, the noise of coworkers, the smell of burnt coffee or popcorn, the boss that drops by to see how you're doing and causes you to lose a hour of concentration so I might as browse the web until quitti…

> the flickering fluorescent lights, the noise of coworkers, the smell of burnt coffee or popcorn, the boss that drops by to see how you're doing and causes you to lose a hour of concentration so I might as browse the web until quitting time.

Was this at a "tech" company of any kind, or a non-tech company with a small number of software engineers? This sounds more like an archetype based on Office Space rather than a real office that I have been in any time in the last 6 years.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#197

Post by RHSeeger »

dahfizz wrote: post #118
burlesona wrote: post #109

As a hiring manager, a lot of candidates I’ve been talking to lately have been telling me they are looking for a new job in part because their company has decided to stay all-remote and they hate it. The first thing they want to know is if we have an office and/or will open one soon. People just have different preferences. I think what we’re seeing right now is a significant expansion of remote roles. Previously if y…

> People just have different preferences. I'm always surprised how HN treats WFH as _obviously_ superior and desirable in every way, to the point where OP is claiming these mega corps may collapse if they ask their employees to come into the office.

That's not how I read it. Rather, I read it as the _ability_ to work from home is _obviously_ superior. As some people do better remotely and some do better in the office, requiring that everyone come into the office is an inferior choice. Admittedly, even that isn't unambiguously true (and neither would be the reverse).

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#198

Post by outside1234 »

dcolkitt wrote: post #15

I’m honestly perplexed what the FANGs are even thinking in being so aggressive about pushing an end to WFH. Sure it could all work out fine for them. Maybe employees will grumble for a bit, then settle back into office life. But maybe it wont’t . There’s a very real possibility that you lose a non-negligible percent of your staff (disproportionately the most talented who have other options), handicap your ability to…

Especially since they are throwing out mask requirements and vaccination verification for folks returning to work - who wants to expose themselves to that?

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#199

Post by vaidhy »

baron_harkonnen wrote: post #120
dcolkitt wrote: post #15

I’m honestly perplexed what the FANGs are even thinking in being so aggressive about pushing an end to WFH. Sure it could all work out fine for them. Maybe employees will grumble for a bit, then settle back into office life. But maybe it wont’t . There’s a very real possibility that you lose a non-negligible percent of your staff (disproportionately the most talented who have other options), handicap your ability to…

> perplexed what the FANGs are even thinking in being so aggressive about pushing an end to WFH I think the divide between WFH and return to the office boils down to something surprisingly simple: how much longer does your current lease last and/or how much office property do you own. Companies that are about to have a lease expire, or are growing at a rate that they would need to soon lease an even larger building a…

I am missing something that connects real estate ownership to WFH policies. Let us assume you have committed to real-estate and you cannot sub-lease it and you are on hook for paying for it. It does not matter whether it is occupied or unoccupied, right?

Is there something that reduces the cost if the building is fully occupied rather than mostly empty? If so, companies could remodel the buildings to have lower density, but more comfortable working spaces - turn all available spaces into small meeting room/working space.

In fact, it might be cheaper if your employees WFH rather than come to office since you can avoid paying for subsidized lunch, snacks, coffee etc. at office, power and cooling all of which I would think are substantial.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#200

Post by flashgordon »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #42

In my experience at least talking to some younger people there is a clear dichotomy: despite all the talk about Gen Z being "digital natives", people new in their career are much hungrier to get back into the office because they don't yet have good career networks built up and they're eager for mentorship. It is older, or at least more established workers who are less keen on that. I don't think FAANGs will have any…

This. My observation (and mine alone) is that the FAANGs have commoditized software engineering roles, eg via standardized interviews, disregarding experience - unless you have a "creator" brand etc. This has increased the pool of candidates who are still clamoring to get in (and recent IPOs just made it busier). The FAANG calculus sounds like betting on all this. Infact they are probably calculating this attrition even contributes to some of the unregretable kind!
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