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“Please don't add any of my stuff to this project”

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Re: “Please don't add any of my stuff to this project”

#191

Post by simonw »

It looks like the bigger question here is this:

Is it the official policy of the home-assistant project that their software should not be packaged by NixOS?

frenck is the fourth most active contributor to home-assistant - and it uses quite a few libraries he has authored: https://github.com/home-assistant/core/graphs/contributors

If frenck is saying NixOS can't package his libraries, he's actually enforcing that NixOS cannot package home-assistant. Is this direction agreed by the other maintainers of that project?

Re: “Please don't add any of my stuff to this project”

#192

Post by pbronez »

sergiomattei wrote: post #115

Yeah, while I get the maintainer's point, the conversation rapidly devolved into giving the Nix maintainers a hard time. I mean, c'mon, Nix is a tiny niche. It's not like the support burden will be colossal.

Plus Nix is a crazy deep rabbit hole. If you're at the point where you're trying to make something work with Nix, you'll know when the problem is upstream and when it isn't.

Re: “Please don't add any of my stuff to this project”

#194

Post by soraminazuki »

dwelch wrote: post #52
elmerfud wrote: post #8

Seems like an author that doesn't understand the spirit of FOSS. The nixos team was clearly allowed to use it and include it when asking for some technical merits as to why, and even offering many alternative options to appease the author the author seemed to just childishly stamp their feet and say, "because I said so". Eventually the author took the position of "taking my ball and going home". Why is a person like…

I agree. This is kind of bizarre behavior from someone who is such an important contributor to Home Assistant, a large scale open source platform. I can’t imagine most of the leaders in Home Assistant would share this attitude, but maybe I’m wrong.

Unfortunately, the founder of Home Assistant has acted similarly too. When NixOS maintainers raised concerns, he accused them of having "no intention to contribute anything positively." This was despite NixOS maintainers' best efforts to engage in a civil discussion.

To make matters worse, he even used the fact that the NixOS discussion was temporarily locked down due to high tensions and accused NixOS maintainers of attempting to shift the maintenance burden on Home Assistant, which is hardly what all this is about.

https://community.home-assistant.io/t/consider-to-avoid-addi...

Re: “Please don't add any of my stuff to this project”

#195

Post by pas »

NathanKP wrote: post #123
Macha wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like Home Assistant by default pulls the (EDIT: Home assistant specified, not latest) version of the package from PyPI at runtime and loads it dynamically. The point of NixOS is reproducible builds, that is if you build a given nix environment you will always get the same code. Dynamically pulling from PyPI at runtime defeats that. The author doesn't want any way of downloading the code other than getting "…

Yeah I really wouldn't want to use anything that dynamically pulls a package from PyPI at runtime, because I don't trust this guy not to add a vulnerability to the code at a later point in time.

Okay, so ... I know someone might, but really who will audit any of his existing code?

(Sure, that's slightly different than identifying such an auto-update point and then trying to do a supply-chain attack. But do maintainers look at what they package? In how much detail?)

Re: “Please don't add any of my stuff to this project”

#196

Post by lucideer »

FemmeAndroid wrote: post #159

Here's the thread NixOS posted to the Home Assistant forums, "Consider to avoid adding library dependencies from frenck." https://community.home-assistant.io/t/consider-to-avoid-addi...

Wow, that thread is wild.

If the views in that discussion are generally representative of the perspective of a majority of homeassistant maintainers & stewards, I'd be extremely wary of relying on the software long term.

> Just do as he asks

This is the absolute antithesis of the intent of open source.

What an awful community response.

Re: “Please don't add any of my stuff to this project”

#197

Post by lamontcg »

elmerfud wrote: post #8

Seems like an author that doesn't understand the spirit of FOSS. The nixos team was clearly allowed to use it and include it when asking for some technical merits as to why, and even offering many alternative options to appease the author the author seemed to just childishly stamp their feet and say, "because I said so". Eventually the author took the position of "taking my ball and going home". Why is a person like…

The broader issue here, again, is that maintaining FOSS software seems to be becoming a shittier and shittier proposition.

I can fully empathize with him that he doesn't want some other project shipping an old an broken version of his project even though it is allowed by the license.

FOSS is really quite ill at this point. If you don't recognize what is happening, you're going to see this happening more. Continuing to blame maintainers that are burned out and frustrated and broke won't fix the systemic issues.

Re: “Please don't add any of my stuff to this project”

#198

Post by mrtweetyhack »

kissgyorgy wrote: post #42

If you don't understand the authors frustration, read Daniel Stenberg blog about what kind of requests he gets about curl. It's insane and ridiculous, not everybody is capable of/wanting to deal with all kinds of shit and hostile users like Daniel.

except he doesn't have to do anything he doesn't want to. ignore/delete. Problem solved.

Re: “Please don't add any of my stuff to this project”

#199

Post by alexaholic »

pas wrote: post #181
alexaholic wrote: post #167

This looks like an attempt to ridicule the guy. He’s made a simple request and he doesn’t have to explain himself. The other parties can comply or not, they may ask questions or not, but surely publishing this non-story to HN and have people interpret his actions, fantasize about his understanding of OSS, their social skills etc, and eventually deride him is a bit hostile and immature. Folks, he’s a human being. He’s…

Like his request, the submitter can simply submit this to HN for us to simply look at it and, like the author, we can simply share our thoughts, and everyone is free to think and feel whatever they do. We are human too, social animals and all that. Are HN readers/commenters known for harassment? How alone are folks supposed to leave him?

You can be free and not deride anyone, both at the same time

Re: “Please don't add any of my stuff to this project”

#200

Post by Denvercoder9 »

dwelch wrote: post #52
elmerfud wrote: post #8

Seems like an author that doesn't understand the spirit of FOSS. The nixos team was clearly allowed to use it and include it when asking for some technical merits as to why, and even offering many alternative options to appease the author the author seemed to just childishly stamp their feet and say, "because I said so". Eventually the author took the position of "taking my ball and going home". Why is a person like…

I agree. This is kind of bizarre behavior from someone who is such an important contributor to Home Assistant, a large scale open source platform. I can’t imagine most of the leaders in Home Assistant would share this attitude, but maybe I’m wrong.

> I can’t imagine most of the leaders in Home Assistant would share this attitude, but maybe I’m wrong.

I'm afraid they do[1] (that's from the project founder, and current CEO of the company supporting HA development).

https://community.home-assistant.io/t/consider-to-avoid-addi...

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