Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Linus Torvalds: Get vaccinated. Stop believing the anti-vax lies

lkml.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 269 posts

Re: Linus Torvalds: Get vaccinated. Stop believing the anti-vax lies

#191

Post by grecy »

effie wrote: post #156
grecy wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree 100% and it's quite scary. We've moved past the "information age" where facts and science and raw data are used to drive decisions, and we're in some kind of "selfish wants" age. I don't know if it's a problem with democracy though - we've known for a long time now if you let regular folk vote on it a huge number would vote for absolutely zero tax and society would fall apart because of it, but they'd go down…

Those are quite some assumptions you make there. When did we ever live in age where "facts and science and raw data are used to drive decisions" ? I don't know of such age. Both West and East are driven by ideologies and powerful people whims for a long time. > zero tax and society would fall apart because of it How do you know this? Society is a very general concept, why would it fall apart just because of different…

> When did we ever live in age where "facts and science and raw data are used to drive decisions" ?

IMHO that was the case from something like the 70s to the 00s, but it could be rose colored glasses.

> How do you know this?

Without taxes there are no Police. No schools, no publicly funded roads, water, electricity or anything like that (street sweeping, snow clearing, etc.). That's just the very beginning.

No EPA. Nobody making or enforcing any kind of order. Nobody even making sure the food for sale is some kind of food. I think it's safe to say without taxes society as we know it would fall apart very rapidly. Sure, would there be LaMOE's (Last Man On Earth) defending their Idaho ranch with all their guns... but in the broader sense everything we know today would stop.

Re: Linus Torvalds: Get vaccinated. Stop believing the anti-vax lies

#192

Post by effie »

colinmorelli wrote: post #91
effie wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My body is not about me? Which people around me are more affected when I take vaccine than me?

The elderly and immunocompromised people you are related to, spend time with, and care about. Or, hell, even those that you don't, but just happen to come in close contact with. Also, nobody said your body is not about you. GP suggested the vaccine is not about you. Indeed, it's not. We vaccinate not to protect ourselves, but to protect society by reducing the spread of disease. The fact that it will also protect you…

> The elderly and immunocompromised people you are related to, spend time with, and care about. Or, hell, even those that you don't, but just happen to come in close contact with.

No they aren't, because I can and do limit my risk to such people in other ways. And they can and should limit that risk as well themselves, in other ways than getting others vaccinated. Why?

Because the space outside your home isn't some "safe space" where you won't ever get infected. As a general rule, you are responsible for your health and safety, nobody else is. There are other people with different health strategies out there, even people who are not afraid to get infected.

> We vaccinate not to protect ourselves, but to protect society

Society changes, and it does not need protection via compulsory vaccines, except the 1984 kind. People and their rights need protection.

Re: Linus Torvalds: Get vaccinated. Stop believing the anti-vax lies

#193

Post by stevewodil »

vacjrj wrote: post #110
stevewodil wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Viruses mutate. Healthy humans won't stay healthy forever. The vaccines are not experimental. The moral thing to do is protect idiots from their own stupidity because we value their lives still, but recently I'm questioning that.

> The vaccines are not experimental Then why can’t I sue should I have an adverse effect?

Would you consider roads to be experimental too? Governments have sovereign immunity, they can't be sued for damages you incur due to poor road conditions unless they willfully allow themselves to be sued.

The definition of experimental has no relation to the ability to be sued.

Re: Linus Torvalds: Get vaccinated. Stop believing the anti-vax lies

#194

Post by grecy »

landemva wrote: post #90
grecy wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree 100% and it's quite scary. We've moved past the "information age" where facts and science and raw data are used to drive decisions, and we're in some kind of "selfish wants" age. I don't know if it's a problem with democracy though - we've known for a long time now if you let regular folk vote on it a huge number would vote for absolutely zero tax and society would fall apart because of it, but they'd go down…

Individual people have rights, which come from God (higher power). Groups and "society" are not able to have rights, as "groups" are an artificial construct.

Ignoring your comment about a ficticious guy, I don't disagree that individuals have rights.

But if those individuals want to live among other people, they must obey by the rules and behave in a manner that is acceptable for all, and doesn't infringe on anyone else's rights.

Although "god" created us without any clothes (if you believe in that kind of thing), you can't walk down the street right now naked. You can't take food from the store because you're hungry (or even pick it off a tree a-la Eve) and you can't even just sleep wherever you want.

Individual rights are not the be all and end all when you live in a society.

If you don't like it, you're perfectly free to go live extraordinarily far away in the wilderness and never have anything to do with society. I lived in the Yukon. I know quite a few people doing that. It's a perfectly valid option. They hunt their own food, grow their own vegetables and go into town at most once every six months. They despise it.

Re: Linus Torvalds: Get vaccinated. Stop believing the anti-vax lies

#195

Post by daenz »

sellyme wrote: post #189
daenz wrote: post #147

>It's spreading a lot less these days, largely because people around you have started getting the vaccine Cases were going down significantly in the USA before the mass rollout of the vaccine. 100% guarantee that people forget that unpleasant fact. Sources: https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/02/14/why-coronav... https://abc7news.com/covid-cases-in-us-johnson-and-vaccine-c... https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/…

> Cases were going down significantly in the USA before the mass rollout of the vaccine. This is a very vague statement, so let's put some numbers onto it: Total US vaccination rates exceeded 1% on January 2nd 2021. The US 7-day rolling average case count peaked on January 11th 2021. At that point, 2.7% of the population was vaccinated, and 632,000 people were being vaccinated every day (again, 7-day rolling average)…

“I don’t think the vaccine is having much of an impact at all on case rates," Tom Frieden said in an interview Sunday on CNN’s “Fareed Zakaria GPS.” “It’s what we’re doing right: staying apart, wearing masks, not traveling, not mixing with others indoors.”

That's the former director of the CDC. Do you disagree with his assessment?

Re: Linus Torvalds: Get vaccinated. Stop believing the anti-vax lies

#196

Post by foolinaround »

igetspam wrote: post #98
effie wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My body is not about me? Which people around me are more affected when I take vaccine than me?

Those you do not kill by being a carrier.

any one can be a carrier, vaccinated or otherwise the probability is just lesser [1].

My understanding is that vaccination is supposed to reduce the severity of the covid-19 disease, if you were to contract it. It does not prevent you from the viral infection itself.

[1] https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/vaccine-q-a-can-a-f...

Re: Linus Torvalds: Get vaccinated. Stop believing the anti-vax lies

#197

Post by effie »

alisonkisk wrote: post #163
carlgreene wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, so those who are high risk get vaccinated…what’s the problem?

Some people are immunocompromised or immunosuppressed.

Such people also are recommended to get immunoisolated.

Re: Linus Torvalds: Get vaccinated. Stop believing the anti-vax lies

#198

Post by ghoward »

InTheArena wrote: post #144
ghoward wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not GP. No, an EUA is not the same thing as the normal FDA approval process. And even if it was, I personally would want more results about long-term effects before I got it.

Please see https://vaccine.unchealthcare.org/science/vaccine-approval/w... and then re-read parent comment.

Notice that the two Approvals are different. They are different in the law.

Re: Linus Torvalds: Get vaccinated. Stop believing the anti-vax lies

#199

Post by foolinaround »

igetspam wrote: post #114
vacjrj wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, I’ll be altruistic once I have recourse. Why must I waive my legal rights?

Your rights end where the rights of another begin. Put putting others at risk, you are potentially denying them the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Don't get vaccinated and stay home. I support that. Going out in public as a spreader is not a right and the people you infect should be able to hold you legally liable.

> Your rights end where the rights of another begin.

Agree with this statement as such.

Except that you do not have a right to force others to do anything that they are not in agreement with. You have a right to protect yourself and stay home. I support that. ( Just putting it the way opposite to how you have phrased it )

> Going out in public as a spreader is not a right

Anyone out in public could be a spreader, vaccinated or not. The science is not as clear yet. You should protect yourself.

> the people you infect should be able to hold you legally liable

Why only for Covid-19?

Re: Linus Torvalds: Get vaccinated. Stop believing the anti-vax lies

#200

Post by effie »

grecy wrote: post #191
effie wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are quite some assumptions you make there. When did we ever live in age where "facts and science and raw data are used to drive decisions" ? I don't know of such age. Both West and East are driven by ideologies and powerful people whims for a long time. > zero tax and society would fall apart because of it How do you know this? Society is a very general concept, why would it fall apart just because of different…

> When did we ever live in age where "facts and science and raw data are used to drive decisions" ? IMHO that was the case from something like the 70s to the 00s, but it could be rose colored glasses. > How do you know this? Without taxes there are no Police. No schools, no publicly funded roads, water, electricity or anything like that (street sweeping, snow clearing, etc.). That's just the very beginning. No EPA. N…

That is a very catastrophic view of the world. Taxes keeping us from destruction... I don't know, maybe they just keep us from evolving the society.

Indians were living fine before they ever heard of taxes. They had different organization, but they did have one. The same can happen in the future. A set of local communities with local order based on merit and seniority, without a bureaucracy somewhere far away trying to direct people's lives.

Post reply on HN