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Google Joins Apple to Opt-out of Mobile Advertising IDs

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Re: Google Joins Apple to Opt-out of Mobile Advertising IDs

#191
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The book rainbows end by Vernon vinge had some really intriguing ideas about AR. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbows_End

Gibson's Virtual Light is about a stolen pair of AR glasses. Charlie Stross's Accelerando has a chapter where the main character is basically crippled because ... he lost his AR glasses and can't function without the info in them. Last one is available online: http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/fiction/accelera...

Really not a fan of virtual light personally, Accelerando on the other hand is a very fun ride.

Re: Google Joins Apple to Opt-out of Mobile Advertising IDs

#192
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It hurts Facebook, but it hurts their competitors more.

What competitors? Smaller adtech companies? Sure, there will be some shifts and consolidation but they'll still be around.

There are a massive amount of mid—tier players, not to mention Oracle and Adobe who are also whales.

Re: Google Joins Apple to Opt-out of Mobile Advertising IDs

#193
post #88
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It hurts Facebook, but it hurts their competitors more.

> It hurts Facebook, but it hurts their competitors more. So it hurts Google and Amazon more? [1] 1 - https://www.businessinsider.com/google-facebook-amazon-were-...

Those are far from the only competitors.

Re: Google Joins Apple to Opt-out of Mobile Advertising IDs

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't Google's position here, combined with their push for FLoC, just to create their own cookie and push out competition? It's them saying they have enough data about (profitable!) users now that they can join any future data against past data using not cookies nor app data but just Google property usage... ? And if they don't have enough data about you to do that joining today, then either you won't be profitable t…

No, web and apps are very different environments. Websites used cookies to track users across sites from a 3rd-party company/domain. But cookies were constantly deleted and each domain had its own cookies so matching profiles was always rough. Apps all used the same long-lived device-level ID, allowing them to share data about the same profile much easier while having access to more details from APIs (like GPS and bl…

> The major change here is to stop tracking in anonymous situations (like app installs that won't know which device clicked on an ad and then installed on app), not to stop all data collection.

Let's suppose you use Google or Facebook to discover an e-commerce site, and then you visit that site "anonymously", and then put something in your cart. Maybe you even convert.

If the site has a "log in with {Google,Facebook,etc}" pop-up, then Google/Facebook (even if you do NOT log in) can join your visit with whatever else data they have. (I think Faceboook says, or said, something in their TOS that they won't but I wouldn't trust that-- they're recording the hit to their pop-up after all).

Google / Facebook will already record your click that lead to the site. Now, you might not be logged in to Google or Facebook on the device visiting the third party site, but if anything else on the local network is logged in, then they derive data from your visit even if it's "anonymous." Even the regional impression gives them value.

So here's the deal though: that e-commerce site "owns" that session and impression. At the very least, they paid to serve it. What FLoC and this Android change do is make it harder for Google/Facebook competitor (e.g. Amazon ads, Microsoft, Verizon/Oath, AT&T, etc) from finding something that can join the user visit to whatever data they already have. That makes the impression to the e-commerce site less valuable because now only Google/Facebook can derive data from it.

Moreover, Google / Facebook are going to target ads based upon that visit. Maybe not ads delivered to that user, and maybe not delivered on that e-commerce site (or for them), but they're going to derive targeting value nevertheless. So if the e-commerce site ever wants to run ads, FLoC and this Android setting should in theory make competitors to Google weaker.

So there's a lot of discussion about privacy here, but in the macro I can't help but see FLoC and this Android change as a way to protect Google's monopoly, and Facebook's moat over their own space.

When it comes to mobile, though, I thought there was already so much fragmentation between browsers / quirks, display settings, other User Agent meta, and IP addresses that fingerprinting without cookies was a lot easier than on the Desktop. And by now, many users have transitioned from Desktop to Mobile, making any other previously joined fingerprints more valuable (something Google or Facebook could do, but maybe not ATT/Verizon). So the Android opt-out really only hurts new properties or ad providers who are starting fresh, right?

Re: Google Joins Apple to Opt-out of Mobile Advertising IDs

#196
post #11

> “Senator, We Run Ads” was the iconic response from Facebook’s CEO > And that’s how Facebook still manages to stay free of cost today. I enjoy articles that explain to the layman how the sausage is made. I've always wondered: if enough people know they're the product and know how Facebook makes money, would they delete their account in a fit of rage or continue to use it, knowing that they're victims of surveillance…

> if enough people know they're the product and know how Facebook makes money, would they delete their account in a fit of rage or continue to use it, knowing that they're victims of surveillance capitalism? People know. They just okay with it. If they aren’t, they would have stopped using it by now. If anything, the general public seems to think that Facebook and Instagram’s tracking is more pervasive than it really…

> How many times have you heard people insist that Instagram showed them ads based on a verbal conversation they had where their phone was nearby

Yeah and most of the time this is recency bias. You know: when you learn a new word and suddenly see it everywhere.

Re: Google Joins Apple to Opt-out of Mobile Advertising IDs

#197

10+ year adtech veteran here. This article is nonsense, written by someone without any industry experience. Facebook has billions of users on several different apps. And people log into these apps to use them. FB, Instagram, Whatsapp. Cross-app tracking is not a big deal, they already know who you are. The big hits are going to be a reduction in data collected by other apps fed to Facebook, and in measurement and att…

> Facebook already knows who you are

True, but do the small business know you? No. Facebook helps match other advertisers with you, and earns a good commission out of it.

Now, with these sweeping changes, Facebook would no longer be able to effectively connect marketers with you.

>Their last earnings report show significant growth.

True. But the changes weren’t live back then. Apple released the App Tracking Transparency framework update with iOS14.5 in mid April.

I’m not a veteran in the ad tech space like you. Neither I claim to be one. What I wrote are just facts mixed with my thoughts. None of the things are misleading.

It’s easy to make such sweeping remarks in the comments section. Maybe write an article on your thoughts over this, and we’ll discuss someday

Re: Google Joins Apple to Opt-out of Mobile Advertising IDs

#198
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the initial FB OS attempt failed, I think Zuck realized the investment to make something work was beyond the capital he was willing to invest. When FB released its first “phone” it was still unwilling to take mobile seriously. They left the head of mobile position open for a very long time. Zuck himself has said he missed mobile. With the IPO around that time, making some major strategic investment in tech was n…

>You give Apple Maps as an example, but that product was a major fumble at release. To the point Apple fired the exec in charge over it. They fumbled, but that really didn't matter in the long run. Apple now has a perfectly competent mapping application. They've siphoned data away from Google and redirected it to themselves. Maps is now a key component to Apple's products and service, and has clearly become a corners…

I’m in full agreement. My comment was to show just how much investment was required and how injurious it was early on.

I’m saying Zuck / FB could not stomach it at the time.

Re: Google Joins Apple to Opt-out of Mobile Advertising IDs

#199
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What competitors? Smaller adtech companies? Sure, there will be some shifts and consolidation but they'll still be around.

There are a massive amount of mid—tier players, not to mention Oracle and Adobe who are also whales.

They're all small compared to the duopoly/FAANG.

Re: Google Joins Apple to Opt-out of Mobile Advertising IDs

#200

10+ year adtech veteran here. This article is nonsense, written by someone without any industry experience. Facebook has billions of users on several different apps. And people log into these apps to use them. FB, Instagram, Whatsapp. Cross-app tracking is not a big deal, they already know who you are. The big hits are going to be a reduction in data collected by other apps fed to Facebook, and in measurement and att…

> Facebook already knows who you are True, but do the small business know you? No. Facebook helps match other advertisers with you, and earns a good commission out of it. Now, with these sweeping changes, Facebook would no longer be able to effectively connect marketers with you. >Their last earnings report show significant growth. True. But the changes weren’t live back then. Apple released the App Tracking Transpar…

> "Facebook would no longer be able to effectively connect marketers with you."

Why not? What does small business knowing you have to do with anything? Marketers can target using demographics, interests, behaviors and tons of other factors to get new customers, or they can upload an emails or other profile data to retarget existing users. Nothing has changed here.

> "But the changes weren’t live back then"

IDFA has had a global opt-out for years and 30% in the US have turned it off. The new change is to allow the opt-out on a per-app basis after install.

> "It’s easy to make such sweeping remarks in the comments section. Maybe write an article on your thoughts over this, and we’ll discuss someday"

It's "easy" because I've built multiple products and companies over a decade, and earned my knowledge and experience in the industry. I never said you were misleading though, but that's the 3rd incorrect statement you made in your reply after the two above.

No article needed, my comments already cover everything. This is a discussion forum though so go ahead and discuss right here if you want.

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