Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate

openstates.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 230 posts

Re: California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate

#191

Post by haskellandchill »

tick_tock_tick wrote: post #184
henriquez wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kamala Harris sent Californians away for long haul prison sentences on drug-related infractions. Anyone here who thinks mass incarceration improves society should explain their reasoning, because I really don’t understand. Also the parent commenter on “tax base” is misguided. We’re not talking about legalizing and taxing drugs, just not locking people up for victimless crimes.

I mean mass incarceration for "long haul" (lets says 30+ years) prison terms absolutely could be argued to "improve" society by removing people who have broken the social contract. The classic problem with prison is short and frequent sentences that fuck someones life up just enough to prevent them from being a "good" member of society but not long enough to really keep them away from the general population.

Who exactly considers that the "classic problem" of prison? Your reasoning strikes me as perverse. This "social contract" is the rule of a few elites with racially charged political agendas over the many, look into the history of drug laws. It's not a just contract if you are manipulated with false propaganda and coerced by force into signing.

Re: California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate

#192

Post by Florin_Andrei »

zenron wrote: post #133
Florin_Andrei wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The legal system will always trail behind the reality on the societal ground out there - that's almost by definition, and you actually kinda want them to be quite cautious and thorough before they make decisions. But you also need to watch for outliers - laws that are WAY past their prime, and should have been put to pasture long ago. Basically, the legal system needs a garbage collection mechanism.

"The Breitbart Doctrine is the idea that "politics is downstream from culture" and that to change politics one must first change culture.} [cited from Wikipedia] Andrew was a man ahead of his time.

And now his name shall forever remain linked with one of the most vile spouts of toxic sludge in the contemporary media.

Legacies are complicated.

Re: California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate

#193

Post by aerostable_slug »

captainclam wrote: post #45
fasteddie31003 wrote: post #23

Probably 95% of people can handle psychedelics. That last 5% are not going to handle psychedelics well. I'm talking about the people on Market and 6th with schizophrenia. If you give someone with schizophrenia mushrooms they will have a total break with reality and might not come back easily. This is going to make the street people of CA even that more crazy.

"That last 5% are not going to handle psychedelics well." The way this comment is written makes it sound as if 100% of people will be using psychedelics after decriminalization goes into effect.

It seems likely more people will try it, given the rosy-colored picture most sources paint of psychedelics (vs. something like meth) and the fact that it's legally available.

100%? Of course not, but some who are susceptible will likely be in that percentage of people who decide to give it a shot.

Re: California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate

#194

Post by stjohnswarts »

ggreer wrote: post #17
michaelbrave wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard it has a lot of promise in treating depression, decriminalization would allow for official medical studies.

Ketamine is schedule III in the US. That makes it less restricted than meds like adderall and most prescription opiates. Decriminalizing it wouldn't really matter for research studies.

It would really matter a lot for someone who got caught with a small amount of it, tho

Re: California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate

#195

Post by stjohnswarts »

Morvan wrote: post #87
michaelbrave wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard it has a lot of promise in treating depression, decriminalization would allow for official medical studies.

again, if drugs is what you need to "treat" depression then you probably have a much bigger problem in life that needs to be addressed rather than looking for another band-aid. depression is not some random disease you catch like a bad cold, it stems from personal or systemic issues that will only continue to feed into said depression until fixed.

It -can- be messed up brain chemistry despite what all the "only therapy helps" folks who are out to make a buck and prevent people from at least trying it.

Re: California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate

#196

Post by aerostable_slug »

giantg2 wrote: post #79
fnord77 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it is promising, but there's not enough data to say this for sure. decriminalizing it will make running studies easier.

Will it though? The feds could still come after you if you're publishing research that admits possession, etc.

They aren't doing that with the researchers here in California openly attempting to find marketable ways to exploit legal marijuana.

Re: California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate

#197

Post by stjohnswarts »

8note wrote: post #118
clipradiowallet wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ketamine may (or may not, I have no idea) have legitimate medical and recreational uses...but those aren't what worry me. Ketamine has a long history of being a popular choice to subdue a kidnapping victim.

If it's being used as a weapon, that sounds like it should be protected under the second amendment. I imagine guns and knives are the most popular choices for subduing kidnapping victims, and they're explicitly legal because they can be used in that way

They meant as an ongoing way of controlling the kidnapee in a more cooperative state not the initial gun to the head "come with me, we're kidnapping you"

Re: California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate

#198

Post by kstrauser »

CheezeIt wrote: post #181
kstrauser wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Traffic deaths in CO were up 3% last year: https://kdvr.com/news/local/colorado-traffic-related-deaths-... CO population increased by 15% in the last decade: https://www.9news.com/article/news/local/colorado-news/color... It seems like it'd be really hard to defend the claim that the death rate (which isn't per-mile-driven, so lacks the context to actually evaluate it meaningfully) is growing "much faster" than the p…

It’s actually really easy. Colorado marijuana legalization happened in 2014, not last year. So why are you looking at last year’s change?

I produced figures. Your turn.

Edit: Never mind, got 'em. Here's Colorado's own numbers: https://www.codot.gov/safety/traffic-safety/assets/fatal-cra...

Notice that fatalities are up significantly, but so are vehicle miles traveled. In fact, in 2013, Colorado had .0075 fatalities per million miles driven. In 2019, that number was... .0075. In other words, your likelihood of dying per distance driven was almost exactly equal to 2013.

This are the CO government's numbers, not mine or anyone else's.

I don't have a dog in this hunt. I'm not from Colorado, and I don't use marijuana. But it's really hard to say that legalizing marijuana in CO had any affect on traffic safety at all, when the fatality rate is essentially identical afterward.

Re: California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate

#199

Post by stjohnswarts »

jeffbee wrote: post #19
stickfigure wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Passed the CA Senate... then it goes on to the CA Assembly for vote. Anyone know the probability that this will make it all the way to becoming law?

Anyone know why states have bicameral legislatures?

Using the USA congress it was viewed a compromise between having reps for the people aka "democracy" and the Senate preventing the tragedy of the commons with a more "stable", less influenced by the populace groups of reps who would be more intellectual and conservative. They would represent the states at large (population not being a metric) rather than districts in the states more of a "republic" idea. That's why you'll hear the USA called a Democratic Republic and why idiots who say "we're a republic and not a democracy!" are almost completely wrong.

Re: California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate

#200

Post by Jiocus »

tick_tock_tick wrote: post #187
madcow2 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, my wording could've been better. I was referring to that I've heard some horror stories of those who do get addicted. Overuse is really hard on the body. IIRC incontinence / bladder issues specifically.

I think it's an interesting issue you also see with some people and weed. The drug by and large is "too safe". Since fucking yourself up with it is actually kind of hard people get too comfortable and sort of slide down the slope from every so often to daily much easier than something you know is "dangerous". Basically you respect heroine/meth/coke/etc since you know you can OD and it's doing all sorts of damage to y…

Very true.

If I recall correctly about ketamine, the mind altering effects diminish without sufficient restorative period between dosage. This could further be an issue in two ways. Individuals may associate the effects of ketamine to the mind altering effects only, not realising that it affect the body even if they're not getting the same high ("what I can't perceive can't hurt me"). It could also make individuals try higher dosage more often ("maybe it's bad product, it didn't do anything last night, let's try again").

Post reply on HN