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Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

dolphin-emu.org

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Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#191

Post by vlunkr »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #178
ActorNightly wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still dont get how people pretend Apple cares about privacy. By default Apple devices phone home and collect data on you, and this is not optional, and they will hand that data to law enforcement. They also have the ability to change their data handling policieson a whim since there is nobody holding them accountable. THIS IS NOT PRIVACY. Not that windows or android devices are better as they come out of the box, b…

You’re in an echo chamber. By default, iPhones do send diagnostic data, but that data can be disabled in Settings. They also upload your files in an encrypted connection (but without end to end encryption) into your iCloud backup, and that can be handed over with a subpoena, but you can disable iCloud backup or simply not pay for it.

Nothing you said contradicts anything they said. By default, Apple collects all this data.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#192

Post by ianai »

klelatti wrote: post #59
jtdev wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I run Firefox on iPad with zero problems…

I'm sure you know but Firefox on the iPad uses Apple's rendering engine Webkit and not Mozilla's Gecko -so arguably it's more like Safari than desktop Firefox.

We’d all be spared confusion if you called it “Firefox sans WebKit”. It probably is too much to expect everyone reading a comment to know about the rendering bit.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#193

Post by notsureaboutpg »

squeaky-clean wrote: post #158
fooqux wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> many of us don’t want our iPads or iPhones to be like our computers And many of us do . I would never buy a locked-down piece of hardware like that. But I don't think it matters either way what either side wants, because it's what Apple wants that matters. They want to keep their walled garden's walls air tight, and there are apparently enough people that are OK living in that garden that it works. I'm positive tha…

Don't buy an iPhone then. I used to be all about customizing my phone, but when the "Phone" app on my android crashed repeatedly while trying to call 911 in an emergency, I now only want a locked-down and stable piece of hardware as my phone.

Well as the main comment pointed out. The lament is that the strongest mobile hardware out there at the moment is also locked down. Would be nice to have the option for a not locked down piece of that hardware, and we do not wish that you don't have the option for a locked down stable piece of hardware.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#194

Post by hota_mazi »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #157
tw04 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I’m saying that if you add that choice, it isn’t that technical users have more freedom and that’s bad. It’s that Apple users become pawns in a chess game against other tech Giants, who don’t want to follow Apple‘s rules whether it be for privacy, IAP, or other reasons. Become "pawns" how? You're again saying that a user being allowed to load things on to their phone is Apple's responsibility. Literally nobody has s…

Right now, every developer will tell you that Apple is significantly more strict with what is allowed on the App Store than the Google Play store is. Not perfect, but more strict. This has caused tech giants like Facebook considerable hurt. For example, the fact that they have to have those embarrassing privacy labels on their app in the App Store. Or that they have to present that prompt asking for permission to use…

> This has caused tech giants like Facebook considerable hurt. For example, the fact that they have to have those embarrassing privacy labels on their app in the App Store.

They have the exact same embarrassing label on the Play store, and guess what, their Android app is also on that store. Even though they don't have to be.

The reason is that they have a lot more reach on a store than as a sideload.

The difference is that Google gives a lot more freedom to developers and businesses than Apple does.

> Even though you might vehemently disagree with Apple, I respect the right of users to choose whether they want a restricted but more private experience, or less restricted but less private experience.

That's a straw man. Nobody argued this.

We're just calling Apple's monopolistic, hegemonic behavior for what it is. As is Epic as we speak.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#195

Post by gjsman-1000 »

vlunkr wrote: post #191
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re in an echo chamber. By default, iPhones do send diagnostic data, but that data can be disabled in Settings. They also upload your files in an encrypted connection (but without end to end encryption) into your iCloud backup, and that can be handed over with a subpoena, but you can disable iCloud backup or simply not pay for it.

Nothing you said contradicts anything they said. By default, Apple collects all this data.

Read it closely, the poster said it wasn’t optional.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#196

Post by robenkleene »

threeseed wrote: post #32
jeroenhd wrote: post #24

It's clear AS is a great advancement in general computing, but every piece like this reads as "the hardware is amazing, and it's totally worth it to work around these arbitrary software restrictions". This performance would've been available on iPads years ago if it wasn't for Apple's blanket ban on JIT and the likes. Apple is one of those companies whose hardware I'd love to have if it wasn't for their software and…

Apple’s blanket ban on interpreted code is not arbitrary. It is there to prevent apps circumventing the review process and security model ie. apps pretending to do X during the review process and then doing Y when in use or obfuscating their use of private APIs. Now you can argue these restrictions are unreasonable but many of us don’t want our iPads or iPhones to be like our computers.

I'm not sure the reasons you listed, "X during the review process and then doing Y when in use or obfuscating their use of private APIs", are the best match for blocking all arbitrary code execution. E.g., there's no reason an app can't simply compile multiple use cases into a single binary to get past review (in fact, this happens all the time). And, it's way too broad to be about blocking access to private APIs, e.g., they're blocking all running of Ruby, Python, Node, etc... with this rule.

I think the more specific match to what Apple is blocking with these rules is anything that resembles an App Store-like experience. Apple doesn't want anything that can download and run arbitrary apps, because that would dilute their platform control and other advantages. There's an excellent piece about why Apple is so afraid of this (https://stratechery.com/2013/why-doesnt-apple-enable-sustain...).

This motivation provides a more specific match to preventing arbitrary code execution: An App Store-like experience is almost impossible without downloading and executing code. It also matches the exception that Apple provides for "educational apps designed to teach, develop, or allow students to test executable code may, in limited circumstances, download code provided that such code is not used for other purposes" (https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#2.5...).

Furthermore, this perspective is support by other policies as well:

1. This is why Apple doesn't allow third-party web rendering engines on the App Store. A third-party web engine could also be used to create an App Store-like experience.

2. See 4.2.7 (https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#4.2...), the rules around what remote desktop apps can do. These restrictions seem specifically written to prevent remote desktop features from being used to create an App Store-like experience.

So, while I think rule 2.4.2 does help with the goals you listed, if it were just about those goals, these rules would be written differently (e.g., allowing downloading and executing scripting languages). And I think there's more evidence that rule 2.4.2 is more about preventing third-parties from providing App Store-like experiences.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#197

Post by pwinnski »

vcxy wrote: post #184
dylan604 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I would never buy a locked-down piece of hardware like that Do you own an Xbox or Playstation? Do you own a SmartTV?

I'm not who you replied to, but I find this interesting. It seems like you're asking rhetorically, but the answer for me is no. I expect I'm not alone. I do own an old Kindle Paperwhite, which I assume is fairly locked down? I'm not actually sure.

The Paperwhite is indeed locked down.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#198

Post by throwaway894345 »

ActorNightly wrote: post #167
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like everything in technology, you have a choice. If you want openness at the expense of security and privacy, you can purchase an Android or Windows device. If you want security and privacy more than openness, you buy an iPhone. The Hacker News crowd is unique in that we want to have our cake and eat it too by making the iPhone work more like Android and expressing outrage that such a choice exists. So even though I…

I still dont get how people pretend Apple cares about privacy. By default Apple devices phone home and collect data on you, and this is not optional, and they will hand that data to law enforcement. They also have the ability to change their data handling policieson a whim since there is nobody holding them accountable. THIS IS NOT PRIVACY. Not that windows or android devices are better as they come out of the box, b…

So what's the deal? Any company that makes users opt out of diagnostic data is just as bad as the companies whose entire business model is predicated around collecting as much data as possible about you and selling it to people whose sole ambition is to manipulate you? Are these two things really equally bad? We can't acknowledge that one of those is considerably more in favor of privacy than the other--they must both be labeled "NOT PRIVACY" with all nuance eliminated? Is that where we are in our discourse?

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#199

Post by vcxy »

pwinnski wrote: post #197
vcxy wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not who you replied to, but I find this interesting. It seems like you're asking rhetorically, but the answer for me is no. I expect I'm not alone. I do own an old Kindle Paperwhite, which I assume is fairly locked down? I'm not actually sure.

The Paperwhite is indeed locked down.

Figured as much. It's been in airplane mode the entire time I've owned it and I just put books on it with calibre. I guess this somehow mirrors how some people feel about their Apple devices? They don't notice it being locked down because it already does what they want?

The other alternative is what I can't relate to at all: the device doesn't do what they want due to being locked down, but they're ok with the trade-off. I don't have a problem with it, but I can't relate.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#200

Post by klelatti »

ianai wrote: post #192
klelatti wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure you know but Firefox on the iPad uses Apple's rendering engine Webkit and not Mozilla's Gecko -so arguably it's more like Safari than desktop Firefox.

We’d all be spared confusion if you called it “Firefox sans WebKit”. It probably is too much to expect everyone reading a comment to know about the rendering bit.

Sorry no idea at all what you're saying here. If you know what WebKit is then you probably know what rendering means.
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