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Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

reuters.com

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Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#191

Post by [deleted] »

johnwheeler wrote: post #145
ProjectArcturis wrote: post #56

Bitcoin is the ultimate, purely financial object. It has no revenues or profits. The supply is fixed -- unlike, say, gold, where high prices mean people will eventually start digging mines, BTC supply is entirely price-inelastic. The only thing that determines BTC price is demand. And over the past 13 years, we've seen reflexivity at work: The price has gone up, so more people want it, so the price goes up further, a…

To me, the argument that fixed supply is a good thing has always been worrisome. People just parrot that viewpoint without asking whether some amount of Keynesian economics is useful, because you know, government is evil. It got us out of the Great Recession and it’s been 12 years. Maybe the consequences haven’t fully manifest, but another Great Depression would have been guaranteed hell.

[deleted]

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#192

Post by bronzeage »

jmacd wrote: post #11

As an outside observer, who has no crypto holdings at all, but is very deeply invested in the public stock market with a heavy weight on technology stocks... this doesn't look like a crash to me at all. It just looks like some steam being let off and old investors cash out and new investors get more comfortable with how much and where to invest. I consider crypto currency as it is to be an elaborate Ponzi scheme (per…

It's not a Ponzi scheme because in ponzi scheme you deliberately use late investors money to pay early investors.

What happens in cryptocurrency is fake-exchange scheme. Tether is a fake currency printed in unlimited way by bitfinex which is also an exchange. By pretending tethers are real dollars you create the appearance of a stronger market for cryptocurrency than actually exists. It all rests on increasing the number of tether in circulation. It will fail when there is a run-on-the-bank on tether.

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#193

Post by ArkanExplorer »

almost_usual wrote: post #110
stephc_int13 wrote: post #8

I don't know why, it is probably highly irrational, but I always rejoice when the Bitcoin crashes.

It’s not irrational it’s a step towards not wasting tremendous energy.

And also freeing up computer chip manufacturing capacity to go towards actual productive use. I look forward to buying a new GPU!

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#194

Post by endisneigh »

patwolf wrote: post #153

I've been trading Bitcoin for several years and have gone through the various booms and busts of that time. I'm not sure I'm ready to call this a crash when it's back to where it was a few months ago. The idea of Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies is addictive, but there's always the sobering moment when you realize how limiting it is. I tried to transfer some a few months ago and was hit with $25 in transaction fees…

how is 20% down not a crash?

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#195

Post by paulpauper »

fsflover wrote: post #171
SavantIdiot wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I still think it is revolutionary technology that may well revolutionise things in 5-10 or 50 years, who knows. If there's one thing I love most about the technology behind bitcoin, it is the permanent, public, unalterable ledger of every purchase I've ever made and every purchase I'll every make, and who I gave the money to. I'm super excited about the complete lack of personal financial privacy that Bitcoin's blo…

If you care about privacy, then consider Monero.

i love when ppl say this. you realize that turning monero into usable cash will at some point req. revealing your identity?

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#196

Post by mcintyre1994 »

blfr wrote: post #27

Coinbase is down for me. Gotta give it to BTC: it's a great store of value. You cannot sell it in panic, the technology is protecting you from your own psychology.

Haha, Kraken is the one I use. They've just disabled their login button with no messaging, which I guess is one way to achieve the same while avoiding a mark on their uptime graph.

If I remove the `disabled` attribute then clicking the button does nothing but I get a CORS error in the console.

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#197

Post by lhorie »

kllrnohj wrote: post #26
jmacd wrote: post #11

As an outside observer, who has no crypto holdings at all, but is very deeply invested in the public stock market with a heavy weight on technology stocks... this doesn't look like a crash to me at all. It just looks like some steam being let off and old investors cash out and new investors get more comfortable with how much and where to invest. I consider crypto currency as it is to be an elaborate Ponzi scheme (per…

Bitcoin & Ether are both down -40% from a week to a month ago. Both of those are, in theory, large enough that investors "letting off some steam" shouldn't move them that much. If $SPY dropped 40% we'd all call it a crash. This isn't that different. Also unlike the stock market, crypto is under the delusion of being a viable currency. If USD or Euro dropped even 20% we'd start questioning if it's a recession, much le…

> If $SPY dropped 40% we'd all call it a crash

SPY is highly diversified though. The crypto market is known to move in tandem w/ BTC swings.

A 40% swing may seem large compared to SPY's usual 1-2% swings, but consider that other crypto coins frequently swing by 10-50%. For example, MATIC was up some 47% just yesterday. The reality is that crypto is highly volatile; it doesn't make sense to compare its volatility to ETFs or REITs or other conservative vehicles.

Some analysts were even expecting a correction, saying that a BTC drop to 30k would still be within expectations...

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#198

Post by serial_dev »

kllrnohj wrote: post #26
jmacd wrote: post #11

As an outside observer, who has no crypto holdings at all, but is very deeply invested in the public stock market with a heavy weight on technology stocks... this doesn't look like a crash to me at all. It just looks like some steam being let off and old investors cash out and new investors get more comfortable with how much and where to invest. I consider crypto currency as it is to be an elaborate Ponzi scheme (per…

Bitcoin & Ether are both down -40% from a week to a month ago. Both of those are, in theory, large enough that investors "letting off some steam" shouldn't move them that much. If $SPY dropped 40% we'd all call it a crash. This isn't that different. Also unlike the stock market, crypto is under the delusion of being a viable currency. If USD or Euro dropped even 20% we'd start questioning if it's a recession, much le…

> If $SPY dropped 40% we'd all call it a crash. This isn't that different.

Hmm, yes it is different. Cryptocurrencies are very-very volatile. In the last weeks, it wasn't uncommon to have 25% change in either direction within 24 hours for most top currencies. Stocks are less volatile.

With that said, the current nose-dive isn't over yet, so I'm not saying there won't be a crash, I'm just saying that comparing stocks and cryptos sounds to me like comparing apples to oranges.

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#199

Post by afterburner »

kllrnohj wrote: post #26
jmacd wrote: post #11

As an outside observer, who has no crypto holdings at all, but is very deeply invested in the public stock market with a heavy weight on technology stocks... this doesn't look like a crash to me at all. It just looks like some steam being let off and old investors cash out and new investors get more comfortable with how much and where to invest. I consider crypto currency as it is to be an elaborate Ponzi scheme (per…

Bitcoin & Ether are both down -40% from a week to a month ago. Both of those are, in theory, large enough that investors "letting off some steam" shouldn't move them that much. If $SPY dropped 40% we'd all call it a crash. This isn't that different. Also unlike the stock market, crypto is under the delusion of being a viable currency. If USD or Euro dropped even 20% we'd start questioning if it's a recession, much le…

Regular stock markets have circuit breakers in place and don't even operate 24/7. There are plenty of things that slow down price movement there. If they didn't have circuit breakers and did operate 24/7, I'd imagine we would have seen far greater record price movements over history, maybe even as bad as the absolute worst crypto swings.

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#200

Post by NationalPark »

thebean11 wrote: post #185
paulpauper wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

alt coins. BTC dominace used to be 90%+. now way lower . BTC holders get no royalties from blockchain being copied

how can you possibly make the claim that BTC was diluted vs the market cap of other coins being net new value?

The argument is that crypto has little to no intrinsic value and the price is being moved by speculation. In that case, the value comes from how many other speculators are willing to speculate in your currency - more options means fewer dollars buying bitcoin. The fact that pretty much every crypto of non-trivial float trades in lock step with BTC definitely supports the "no intrinsic value" theory.
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