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Poor in Tech

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Re: Poor in Tech

#191

Post by oaiey »

Tade0 wrote: post #106

I read the whole thing trying to find something I could relate to, as I grew up in a place that was a proper third world country as recently as in the 90s. This appears to be American poor - which I think is in its own category, because comparing to American rich it's just so much worse off. It's not that she's necessarily materially poor. It's just that there's no one around who can even begin to understand her pred…

She lives in her social environment and is subjectively (and relatively) poor compared to the rest of the social environment The word poor is not strictly defined, so her "poorness" does not compare to "third-world-poorness".

She expresses exactly that. She starts each sentence that she realizes that she is poor compared with them. Relative. I do not have the feeling that she even feels miserable about it.

Re: Poor in Tech

#192

Post by mwcampbell »

shoo wrote: post #129
MattGaiser wrote: post #15

> > I knew I was the only poor person at my tech startup because I made more there than I’d ever made before; a daring amount I had been afraid to ask for during the offer process. I discovered through misadventure that I still made less than any of the executive assistants, or the receptionist. I was, in fact, the lowest-paid person in the building including the interns. I hadn’t known what was possible, so I couldn…

harder to negotiate a good deal for yourself when you are operating at an information disadvantage (e.g. not having friends/family/former classmates as peers in industry to give insider advice), if you don't have good alternative to employer lowball offer, or you are in poorer negotiating position due to having fewer resources (cash, time, higher expenses due to not having enough cash & stability to secure cheaper lo…

I don't blame her for not negotiating a good deal; I blame the company for screwing her over.

Re: Poor in Tech

#193

Post by oaiey »

8fGTBjZxBcHq wrote: post #189
isomorph wrote: post #116

Many of the comments on this article are so cold. I can’t believe it. When I read the original article I was imagining all the constructive ways HN readers would interpret it and hold a mirror up to their own behaviour. Some commenters are doing this. But it surprises and depresses me how many people are commenting saying “no, this list isn’t what it says it is, it’s a list showing the author has a negative mindset /…

I don't know I'm not thrilled to be this negative or correct about this but it's been pretty much exactly what I expected.

I was more naive ;)

Re: Poor in Tech

#194

Post by 8fGTBjZxBcHq »

Kalium wrote: post #102
8fGTBjZxBcHq wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was trying to be nice. It's worth discussing I just don't think you contributed anything useful to the conversation with that comment. To me it reads like you're dismissing the author's experiences based on a technicality, rather than engaging with them on their terms and merits.

Do you think it might be possible to appreciate the reality and sincerity of someone's experiences while also questioning the validity of their interpretations? Would this be a form of substantive engagement on the merits of the piece? Personally, I see someone describing a number of points of cultural difference and an author who wholeheartedly believes they have identified the root of all of them. Is it worth discu…

Yeah I think I've been pretty clear that I think that conversation is possible and also that I think that is not the conversation that is happening in this thread.

Re: Poor in Tech

#195

Post by the_only_law »

Ekaros wrote: post #38
ideamotor wrote: post #19

Assuming the trip to Greece was a joke was pretty good, as was the comment about hearing other people’s hobbies and just thinking about the expense. There are definitely cultural signifiers from wealth. Discussing housing endlessly is the biggest one.

Found that bit surprising one. For European startup long weekend in Greece isn't that special. The flights can be quite cheap and Greece generally isn't that expensive country. A few hundred all together could probably be done.

I’ve always been surprised by the flight costs of some European airlines. It seems cheaper to fly around Europe than it is to fly within the US. I recall during the peak of the pandemic some people I know posting pictures of $5 flights while in the US they were they were still 10-11 times that for domestic flights.

Re: Poor in Tech

#196

Post by MattRix »

sol_invictus wrote: post #26
protomyth wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would imagine you got it right with the "get out of the gym if you are not already fit". It's amazing how badly people act towards people starting out on their fitness.

Literally never seen this happen. 98% guarantee the stigma is in the obese person’s own head more than anything. It’s just easier to transfer the responsibility to ”an unfriendly environment” than taking responsibility & control of your own feelings and actions

It happens, despite you not seeing it.

Re: Poor in Tech

#197

Post by ryanbrunner »

throwaway713 wrote: post #97

A lot of this list just reads that they have coworkers who are jerks. Not interacting with cleaning staff? That seems like a personal problem. And I’ve seen plenty of frugal VPs that drive 15 year old cars and make their own lunch. That said, I was also pretty horrified once when I was waiting in the lunch line and heard the person in front of me complaining that their six month $100k bonus wasn’t as high as they tho…

I think an important aspect is that, even if you're frugal, there's signifiers of class that you can easily 'turn on'. I'm pretty frugal myself (I drive a 15 year old hand-me-down from my parents, have the cheapest phone that will still function, and generally avoid buying anything new ever), but my upbringing was fairly comfortable. But I can definitely recognize that I'm able to fit in upper class settings, and can recognize easily when people can't.

I think it's fair to say that an SF-based tech startup is a place where you're going to see a lot of these upper class signifiers.

Re: Poor in Tech

#198

Post by barry-cotter »

isomorph wrote: post #116

Many of the comments on this article are so cold. I can’t believe it. When I read the original article I was imagining all the constructive ways HN readers would interpret it and hold a mirror up to their own behaviour. Some commenters are doing this. But it surprises and depresses me how many people are commenting saying “no, this list isn’t what it says it is, it’s a list showing the author has a negative mindset /…

Some people enjoy having their heartstrings tugged. Others don’t. What causes people to feel sympathy differs from person to person. I remember reading some tweet from Chrissy Teigen before she stopped tweeting complaining about a restaurant serving her a $10,000 bottle of wine without mentioning the price when she asked for something that went well with her dish. Not my kind of problem but it annoyed her. No doubt there are Americans from generational wealth who could write about their discomfort dealing with Brits of similar status in Britain, not knowing all the correct shibboleths. People feel alienated all the time, everywhere. I felt alienated from my classmates all through primary and secondary school. I got to university and found my people. Not fitting in and figuring out how to fit in is a really common experience. Right now there’s some black kid who’s really, really into metal going to his first live gig and he’s feeling awkward because he doesn’t know anyone and when he does he’ll pronounce something wrong or say cool instead of based or something. There’s an American kid at his first day at a school in Britain who’s going to get called a Yank. There’s a leftist kid going to his first demonstration who’s going to get called a TERF. This is a thing that happens.

Re: Poor in Tech

#199

Post by augustk »

codegeek wrote: post #72
culturestate wrote: post #5

To me, this reads more as a list of "from outside the valley bubble" signifiers than it does as a list of things that people who've grown up in poverty might do, even if the former was a result of the latter. There are some exceptions - not noticing missed paychecks is the biggest - but most of it is just stuff that happens every day in other offices. Making your lunch at the office and not bringing Advil from home?…

Yea I mostly agree. For example not greeting cleaning lady has nothing to do with being rich or poor. It is just manners and some of us do it and some don't.

A member of the real (old money) upper class would certainly greet the cleaning lady, as the servants are seen as part of the family.

Re: Poor in Tech

#200

Post by Grustaf »

olingern wrote: post #68

I grew up poor and now live and work around "never been poor" folks. Classism 100% exists. The thing that I noticed most folks can't grasp is the appreciation for the small things and the security they have. I find that people who have never experienced being poor are often lacking in both humility and "can do" attitudes. For me, not being wealthy is a feature, not a bug. I realize I'm speaking from a place of privil…

Of course you view things differently if you've never been poor. But that doesn't make you evil, and OP is not a victim. In none of her examples was anyone treating her badly. (I know you are not claiming this, just saying).

In fact, as you hint, having been poor and then getting in to the middle class you probably have a better chance of making it big.

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