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Scala 3.0

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Re: Scala 3.0

#191

Post by [deleted] »

RhodesianHunter wrote: post #189
chrisseaton wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These aren’t ‘Kotlin features’ they’re just normal language features. I really struggle to see Kotlin as being part of the debate here. These features are being driven by enterprise Java user pain points. And those people aren’t looking at Kotlin.

>These features are being driven by enterprise Java user pain points By Java devs who only ever wrote Java, and suddenly had to write Kotlin for Android. They're now aware of these features as a result and are demanding them in Java.

[deleted]

Re: Scala 3.0

#192

Post by neysofu »

mnd999 wrote: post #184
agbell wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some areas it is explicitly the opposite that happened, and in a way that is for the best — see implicits. Scala 2 is a very flexible language and a lot of outsider complaints seem grounded in this flexibility. Scala 3 is more opinionated in some ways: "Opinionated: Contextual Abstractions One underlying core concept of Scala was (and still is to some degree) to provide users with a small set of powerful features…

It’s a shame it’s got less opinionated in other ways. Scala developers must be really looking forward to the endless debates over curly brackets vs white space.

I still can't believe they went for that. I wouldn't really care if the team wanted to switch to significant indentation, but it's absurd to provide two altogether different syntaxes just for the sake of it.

Re: Scala 3.0

#193

Post by haolez »

blandflakes wrote: post #131
haolez wrote: post #111

I'm in need of a functional language for a small part of my system and I'm considering Scala and Purescript[0] (mostly because of their ecosystems). Maybe Scala 3 is a good time to be boarding Scala's ship. I'd appreciate if anyone has any advices of one vs the other. [0] https://www.purescript.org/

Are you considering them together, or against one another? I'd have considered Purescript, which compiles to javascript, to compete with Scala.js, but I hadn't realized (but now do) that purescript has a serverside component as well.

One or the other. It's basically a financial calculator for a niche market, so functional programming fits like a glove.

Re: Scala 3.0

#194

Post by hocuspocus »

blacktriangle wrote: post #183
hocuspocus wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And they were in Scala, Groovy, C# ... before Kotlin was even a thing. There's zero evidence people on the OpenJDK governing board care about Android at all, rather the opposite.

Except Scala brought along some improvements and a whole managerie of other features to manage, Groovy with its gradual typing was simultaneously too far away from Java and yet too similar, and C# means opting into a whole different platform and perpetually living downstream of whatever MS wants to do. Kotlin absolutely nailed the "meaningfully better than Java while staying pedantically true to the existing semantic…

It is still completely irrelevant to Java's evolution since Java 7.

Re: Scala 3.0

#195

Post by zeec123 »

emergentorder wrote: post #181
zeec123 wrote: post #126

It is so bad, that in julia functions are not first class. Instead, I would love to use scala 3 for machine learning since this is the perfect type system for such a task, but linear algebra support is not good enough.

Check out my project NDScala ( https://github.com/SciScala/NDScala ). N-dimensional arrays in Scala 3. Think NumPy ndarray, but with compile-time type-checking/inference over shapes, ndarray/axis labels & numeric data types.

Thanks. Does it map to native routines like numpy? If yes, what about the copy overhead from JVM to native memory?

Re: Scala 3.0

#196

Post by esarbe »

Jeff_Brown wrote: post #152
valenterry wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has one advantage compared to Haskell though: as a Java/Kotlin (or even Python or javascript) developer, you can start with it an be productive immediately. You can then slowly absorb new concepts until you are pretty much ready to write full-fledged Haskell. That's why some call it Haskellator. :) This also means that many codebases have different styles though, whereas in Haskell you have one style (FP).

With version 3 it has another: Haskell doesn't yet have dependent types.

Hrm. Scala has had dependent types for quite some time.

Re: Scala 3.0

#197

Post by sireat »

jules wrote: post #97

Scala 3 + VS code + worksheets is my favourite exploratory programming environment. Its has: * Powerful functional features * Powerful OO features * Imperative features * Powerful type system * Great stdlib * Great syntax * Very fast write/test cycle with worksheets, way better than a REPL * Great IDE features such as autocomplete Scala may not be the best on any one axis, but the combination is unparalleled.

I've been extremely happy with IntelliJ plugin for Scala. I do use Visual Studio Code for Python,JS,web, etc.

What would be advantage of using VS Code over IntelliJ for Scala?

Re: Scala 3.0

#198

Post by peq »

Buttons840 wrote: post #168
acjohnson55 wrote: post #94

I'm so psyched about this. I've followed the development of Scala 3 for pretty much the whole voyage, and I think they've done an incredible job bringing the community along through some pretty radical changes to the language. It has definitely not been an easy process herding a community with very big, informed, divergent opinions on the language. In the end, I think they did an awesome job. Many, many sacred cows o…

What's an example of something they made more approachable? One of my first impressions of Scala, which I have barely seen, and do not know, is that there is a lot of syntax. Has anything been done to help with that? I don't think syntax matters much, but it's one of the only impressions I have of the language and wanted to ask about it.

Scala is one of the smallest typed languages in terms of syntax.

See slide 13: https://www.slideshare.net/Odersky/preparing-for-scala-3#13

With scala 3, syntax has been simplified even more, e.g.:

No more braces necessary. Top level declarations. Extension Methods.

Re: Scala 3.0

#199

Post by patrickthebold »

OOPMan wrote: post #170
Buttons840 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's an example of something they made more approachable? One of my first impressions of Scala, which I have barely seen, and do not know, is that there is a lot of syntax. Has anything been done to help with that? I don't think syntax matters much, but it's one of the only impressions I have of the language and wanted to ask about it.

That's an interesting take, as someone that's used Scala for a while I feel like there actually isn't that much syntax. I guess my perception is warped :-)

Scala has a lot of 'sugar':

f(...) becomes f.apply(...)

matching calls unapply with some various binding.

Some parenthesis are optional: Some(1,2,3) is Some((1,2,3))

optional . so a + b is a.+(b)

colon changes associativity, so a +: b is b.+:(a)

for expressions become, map, flatMap, filter, withFilter and forEach, according to various rules.

def f[A: B]() adds an implicit parameter of type B[A]

I'm sure there's more but that's the top of my head. Of course it's not actually a long list, but none of that is obvious for a newcomer.

Re: Scala 3.0

#200

Post by peq »

mnd999 wrote: post #184
agbell wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some areas it is explicitly the opposite that happened, and in a way that is for the best — see implicits. Scala 2 is a very flexible language and a lot of outsider complaints seem grounded in this flexibility. Scala 3 is more opinionated in some ways: "Opinionated: Contextual Abstractions One underlying core concept of Scala was (and still is to some degree) to provide users with a small set of powerful features…

It’s a shame it’s got less opinionated in other ways. Scala developers must be really looking forward to the endless debates over curly brackets vs white space.

I don't think i will be much of a problem. Braces are already optional in Scala2 if you only use a single expression. The change just gives you the option to be more consistent and remove braces everywhere.
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