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Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

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Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#191
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you assume they're desperate? If I took a gig like this, I'd be damn sure that: 1) I am included in the rolling credits, 2) I have several cameo shots within the show, 3) I can use thumbnails of my appearances within my own web site and 4) that I am able to use the show's logo and likeness to promote my own business. My site would lead off with : "Award winning photographer. You may have seen my work recent…

fair and fine but all of that can be achieved whilst one is fairly compensated too. It's not a "give here and we'll give you this extra" type of situation, they offered nothing in return because they want it for free, period

So self promotion has zero value just because you don’t think it does?

Hubris much?

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#192
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty common in humanities in particular. It's much rarer in scientific, engineering, or technological fields. As a guideline, if the field has money to go around and companies have to compete for interns, they'll pay. If would-be interns have to compete for a few internships and the field famously struggles with budgets of two beans and a bit of string, they won't.

And here's what you left out: https://www.investopedia.com/netflix-q1-fy2021-earnings-repo... Netflix is rolling in cash.

[deleted]

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#193
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think unpaid internships being socially acceptable is one of the roots of this insidious habit. When I worked with interns they were all paid... but every one was more time and expense to work with than any value they provided. In weeks they accomplished what I could do in an afternoon, and we spent WAY more than an afternoon of work with them. Amazingly many seemed to have a very high opinion of their productivit…

It doesn't matter how much faster a full employee could complete a task. They are giving up their labor and should be compensated accordingly. If the company can't figure out how to derive value from that labor, that's its own fault. Moreover, if companies weren't getting value out of internships, they wouldn't continue hiring interns.

I've hired a few (paid) interns in my company. They all produced useful things.

But they cost so much of my time that I no longer want to hire any.

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#194

This will be an unpopular opinion, but I am feeling chatty today. As long as safety + working conditions are not cruel and unusual, and someone is willing to work for $0, why are you trying to stop (or hide) that fact? Someone willing to work for less (or for free) is offering a bargain to incentivize giving him/her the business or the benefit of experience instead of more $. You restricting them from doing that does…

The issue is that with supply and demand, the market will bear poor/abusive conditions for people that have no rational ability to make a difference but superrationally would be able to do so.

A prominent example is child labor laws. Before these were passed, the market would bear endangerment and injuries to children because something was better than nothing to families that had very little, and it was rationally in each family’s best interest to take the risk in exchange for some small amount of money. If they had all collaborated in an organized strike, they could have demanded better conditions, but in practice that wasn’t going to happen for people that were already extremely constrained on money and time (and all it takes is a minority of defectors to prevent this from working). It creates a feedback cycle of compounding inequality, and the only way to break it is via regulation.

So once you allow unpaid work in exchange for "exposure", that becomes the new normal, and no individual photographer can alter the system while still acting in their own best financial interest.

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#195
post #5

I might get downvoted for that, I still gonna say it: That might be due to the demand-supply situation in photography. They probably will find photographers doing this for the promotion effect described in the email.

Right but abusive and predatory behaviour is STILL abusive and predatory in an oversupply situation.

They can just say "no". Problem solved. No abuse, no predation, everyone just goes on with their lives.

And if someone wants to say "yes", who are we to tell them what to do with their own time?

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#196

I think the scale of the 'Exposure' does matter here (please don't just downvote, hear me out). Exposure = Advertisement, right? Wouldn't you pay for advertisement? Now, if you invest very little for advertisement, you might get very little in return. Say, your investment is doing a free 'exposure' gig for a return of 20-30 potential customers. This might not be equitable to your time/equipment/team/etc. Now, in the…

I'm willing to bet money precisely nobody is going to seek out those photographers because they found them in the fineprint of some probably cringeworthy netflix show.

The best they can hope for is having additional munition to convince a potential but hesitant customer.

Also, some people need money this month, not maybe-money 2 years down the line.

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#197
post #28
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because you are able to find someone desperate enough to take up your shitty offer doesn't mean it is the fair market at work. There's a reason labor laws, OSHA, minimum wage etc. exist. This is predatory, period. The irony here is that they wouldn't be able to do this if they just wanted people to act as photographers, not actually take any photos, because the various actors unions wouldn't allow it. Even namel…

Why would you assume they're desperate? If I took a gig like this, I'd be damn sure that: 1) I am included in the rolling credits, 2) I have several cameo shots within the show, 3) I can use thumbnails of my appearances within my own web site and 4) that I am able to use the show's logo and likeness to promote my own business. My site would lead off with : "Award winning photographer. You may have seen my work recent…

They may or may not get in the credits, but I'd bet against them getting any of the other items on this list.

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#198
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think unpaid internships being socially acceptable is one of the roots of this insidious habit. When I worked with interns they were all paid... but every one was more time and expense to work with than any value they provided. In weeks they accomplished what I could do in an afternoon, and we spent WAY more than an afternoon of work with them. Amazingly many seemed to have a very high opinion of their productivit…

It doesn't matter how much faster a full employee could complete a task. They are giving up their labor and should be compensated accordingly. If the company can't figure out how to derive value from that labor, that's its own fault. Moreover, if companies weren't getting value out of internships, they wouldn't continue hiring interns.

> They are giving up their labor and should be compensated accordingly.

If they were at college completing courses, they'd be giving up their labor towards that. If you consider an internship an educational opportunity, then the argument that they should be paid holds no water (since they don't get paid for college work, instead they pay for the experience).

Obviously, not all internships are _really_ educational opportunities, but I would expect most of them to be to at least some extent. To argue that all of them are just "the intern doing work for the employer, and the only difference is the amount of work compared to a full employee" is naive at best, and possibly disingenuous.

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#199
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a Netflix subcontractor didn’t pay their actors, writers, etc, they would catch a well deserved deluge of criticism. Of course it wouldn’t happen because those workers are organized to prevent these abuses.

They aren't really subcontractors of Netflix. They're a separate company selling a product to Netflix (a complete TV show). If Netflix buys a laptop from Apple and Apple does something wrong, you don't blame Netflix for it, you blame Apple.

I don’t think this is cut and dry, and instead depends on the nature of the relationship. To buy a laptop, Netflix didn’t have board meetings, deep contract negotiations involving the executives of both businesses, or an ongoing relationship.

The laptop is effectively a commodity, and any injustice Apple commits is amortized over many million laptop owners who tacitly but minorly endorsed that injustice. Netflix buying a show feels like a much more intimate relationship where much more of the responsibility lies with Netflix as the only buyer of the product.

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#200
post #42
post #21

The US continues to support unpaid work in a pretty major way. I think unpaid internships being socially acceptable is one of the roots of this insidious habit. They've been illegal up here in Canada for a while and it hasn't really caused any economic disasters. It'd be a good change to advocate for down there as well. And, honestly, internships aren't free for companies unless there is literally nothing of value be…

>I think unpaid internships being socially acceptable is one of the roots of this insidious habit. When I worked with interns they were all paid... but every one was more time and expense to work with than any value they provided. In weeks they accomplished what I could do in an afternoon, and we spent WAY more than an afternoon of work with them. Amazingly many seemed to have a very high opinion of their productivit…

There's two ways to look at this. One is, "Is hiring an intern a net profit?" The other is, "Is the intern's work, minus the cost of mentorship, a net profit?"

When I was in college, I did a paid internship at a health insurance company, wherein I audited, documented, and updated requirements for a large SQL script that pulled data from hospitals and used it to calculate reimbursement for Medicare/Medicaid claims (RAPS). Basically, you have to map hospital billing codes to federal ones.

The script was written several years prior by my mentor, and the risk adjustment department had no visibility into how the codes were mapped -- and if it was wrong, we could be fined up to ~$10M (depending on severity), or be missing out on ~$1M in revenue. (It turned out my mentor had done a pretty good job and we only needed minor adjustments, although we also updated the architecture so the risk adjustment folks could define the mapping themselves going forward.)

So in short, I can definitively state that

1) it would have cost the company less for my mentor to do the work directly.

2) The several thousands of dollars that the company spent between my salary and my mentor's was definitely worth the millions in mitigated risk/liability.

3) My mentor enjoyed teaching me much more than he would have enjoyed doing the work himself.

And I'd like to think that I ended up doing a slightly more thorough job than my mentor might have done -- his long tenure at the company and accumulated knowledge of these sorts of scripts being job security of some sort ;)

Anyway, the point here is that internships don't have to be a zero sum game. They can cost more than paying your existing employees to do the same work, and still be valuable.

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