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Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#191

Post by barry-cotter »

brudgers wrote: post #92
spicybright wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wonder if zoning laws have a big effect on that.

The effect of zoning is vanishingly small relative to the effects of money. An insurance company investing its reserves isn't going to change its risk tolerance just because zoning changes. These people look at the numbers produced by their model and send their money where indicated. It's why Walgreens and CVS will build on two corners of the same intersection. Both have the same traffic counts and same catchment dem…

> It does but the dirty secret is that given enough money or interest zoning is a relatively weak opponent

Neither interest nor money are a given and the amount of either necessary varies wildly by jurisdiction. Even quite small obstacles can change outcomes a lot. Zoning has quite real effects.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#192

Post by pm90 »

beambot wrote: post #79

Malls could be the best co-working offices. Ample daytime parking, baller food courts, medical facilities, hair dressers, dentists, cafes, movie theaters, entertainment, etc all under one roof.

Rackspace actually did this, their San Antonio HQ was a former mall (it had some goofy castle based theme and name, I forget).

I thought the idea was brilliant. The mall had a ton of space in which the company plonked a bunch of cubicles that everyone (including the CEO) used, plus many other amenities. On some days there would be delicious food trucks outside.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#193

Post by nerdponx »

pottertheotter wrote: post #170

The opening for this piece is something else. "Adrienne Whyte used to go to the mall twice a week, where she might meet up with her personal shoppers at Neiman Marcus and Saks Fifth Avenue or scour Macy’s for bedding and kitchenware." Twice a week? Is this common for people? Even when online shopping wasn't a thing I don't think I was at a mall once a week.

Some people really liked the mall.

I especially enjoyed our trips to the regional upscale mall as a kid.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#194

Post by silverpepsi »

ilyanep wrote: post #122
beambot wrote: post #79

Malls could be the best co-working offices. Ample daytime parking, baller food courts, medical facilities, hair dressers, dentists, cafes, movie theaters, entertainment, etc all under one roof.

I love how in the US, instead of building all these services and offices near each other and walkable from people's homes, we insist on ideas that force people to drive dozens of miles to get a walkable and convenient experience.

These Obama "we"s that contradict all known facts must stop. It's a kind of logical falacy to throw out a we that includes a vast majority that you know are not in agreement with you!

Americans absolutely freaking love their cars and have no desire to change the drive-thru lifestyle. I can't convince my parents not to feel pity on me when I'm overseas without one, they don't understand and can't understand that I am not merely indifferent, I hate the burden of a car and living in the inconvenient cities that pop up as an result of mass car ownership. The preferences of my friends in their 30s make it clear to me this American preference is not changing within our lifetimes. The lifestyle I want is only available, for the most part, in Asia. A recent long stay in Paris was even quite a surprise for me, I found the population density way too low to enjoy the convenient walk everywhere lifestyle easily found in Shanghai, Seoul, Bangkok, Istanbul etc.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#195

Post by beambot »

admax88q wrote: post #179
beambot wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Malls can definitely obtain natural lighting if architected properly (eg sky lights and light pipes) -- malls are no different than other commercial offices. For example: I used to work at GoogleX's "San Antonio station", which was a converted shopping mall, and it had great lighting, even on lower floors. With multiple employers in same building, you'd also have many more socializing options -- including random coll…

They're already a suburban blight. Just teat them down. Put a park there instead.

Where does the money come from? Cities are cash-strapped, which makes demolition & park development unlikely. Existing property owners aren't exactly in the business of giving away prime realestate or operating charities -- they'd probably opt for more suburban housing developments.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#196

Post by beambot »

vasco wrote: post #121
samatman wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok but the perfect isn't the enemy of the good here. Being able to go for a climate-controlled one-kilometer walk every lunch break is a real luxury for a lot of people, it's way better than a cell in some high-rise near the highway. The mall could have a hackerspace too! It has potential.

The simple solution is work from home because most people already have a home, and simple solutions win. The only reason you're mentioning malls is because they are there, but unless you're a mall-walker on the weekends, I'm pretty sure the average developer's definition of a good lunch break isn't "walking past the mall McDonald's 3 times before returning to your mall wework" or whatever.

There are plenty of malls in SF Bay Area that actually have good & healthy options instead of McDonalds. That's a solvable problem -- just like how some tech companies have amazing cafeterias.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#197

Post by nikanj »

JoeDaDude wrote: post #64

First they got rid of the music stores. Then bookstores disappeared. Without them, there is no fun in going to the mall, haven't been to one in ages.

I don't think the malls "got rid" of either one. Music stores and bookstores just couldn't deal with the business realities of the post-amazon world. I'm certain the malls would have been happy to take their rent money.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#198

Post by nikanj »

pottertheotter wrote: post #170

The opening for this piece is something else. "Adrienne Whyte used to go to the mall twice a week, where she might meet up with her personal shoppers at Neiman Marcus and Saks Fifth Avenue or scour Macy’s for bedding and kitchenware." Twice a week? Is this common for people? Even when online shopping wasn't a thing I don't think I was at a mall once a week.

I vaguely feel like 5% of people now make so much money they don't shop at the mall, they shop at boutique stores with higher prices and more personalized service. 95% people have so little money they can't afford shopping anymore.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#199

Post by noir_lord »

harikb wrote: post #148
vasco wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The simple solution is work from home because most people already have a home, and simple solutions win. The only reason you're mentioning malls is because they are there, but unless you're a mall-walker on the weekends, I'm pretty sure the average developer's definition of a good lunch break isn't "walking past the mall McDonald's 3 times before returning to your mall wework" or whatever.

> because most people already have a home Assuming that everyone has a comfortable and spacious home with a desk&chair area is, well, a bad assumption. A bunch of people I know are now working significantly more time from a couch, in a clearly non-ergonomic position. We will see and hear about the real damage 5 years from now.

We are 3 up (two adults, 1 child) in a 2 bed flat (apartment) with no garden and for the last year both my partner and I have been WFH full time (in my case I changed job to one that is 100% remote forever).

I couldn't agree more, the transition for me was trivial - I'm a developer who plays games, I already had a nice chair, two 27" 4K displays and a fast desktop so for me my hardware/comfort improved - for my partner work issued her a just about passable laptop and..well that was it.

With the lack of space I used a spare 27" monitor I had putting it on the boys desk with a decent external mouse/keyboard and we bought him a gaming chair - that way my partner can use his room as an office while he's at school/his fathers but yeah it's not be great for her.

We are moving next year and my only criteria for the house is at has to have either a large brick built garage or a concrete garage and space for an office pod in the garden, working from home around a near-teenager was challenging (and frankly that's just gonna get worse) and long term not something I want - I need quiet solitude to work most comfortably.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#200

Post by robryan »

emkoemko wrote: post #104
BariumBlue wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure that "Malls are dying" is large part negativity bias - cities don't get "too crowded" with malls, so we never experience having "too many" of them, but we DO experience having them close down. A mall closing down will stick out much more to a person than a new one coming up. It doesn't help that malls are practically designed to get old and decrepit - malls are built to a completed state - once one is bui…

where? here our malls have gotten massive updates, expansions and renovations over the years, not one is closed that would be a waste of a busy business...

Yeah in Australia the successful shopping centers have all renovated and attracted more up market stores and restaurants.
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