India’s second wave • Hacker News Board

Re: India’s second wave

#191

Post by simplerman » Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 6:24 PM UTC

esperent wrote: post #36

throwaway4good wrote: post #6

It is sadly predictable that the pandemic would end up becoming a permanent source of havoc in less developed part of the world, even as it comes under control in the west. This will for certain be with us for many years to come and will further distort the difference between rich and poor. Not at least helped by the nationalism in the west in form of export controls and patents.

I live in a less developed part of the world - Vietnam - and the government and people have been incredibly successful in controlling the virus here. Aside from two short lockdowns of a couple of weeks, my life has barely been affected (except for the lack of tourists and the fact I can't travel outside the country). Local tourism and business seems to be booming. Meanwhile I hear all the stories from back home in Eu…

> The only frustrating thing is how clearly it's been highlighted that the rich and powerful countries get all the vaccines and we'll only get them here once everyone in the west has been vaccinated three times over.

Shouldn't countries that developed vaccines should take care of their citizens first?

Re: India’s second wave

#192

Post by standardUser » Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 6:28 PM UTC

hesarenu wrote: post #120

Wearing mask might just delay getting the infection. I wore mask all the time, wfh and go out only for groceries, still got infected. And when the CM gets Covid a second time after vaccination anyone can get it even with mask or vaccination.

Wearing a mask is method of reducing the risk of transmission. No one ever claimed it prevented transmission. Wearing a mask but still getting infected is not an abnormal or unexpected outcome.

Re: India’s second wave

#193

Post by supernovae » Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 6:29 PM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #188

supernovae wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I don't get is why we call ourselves democracies and speak as "lockdowns hurt poor people very badly" In a representative democracy, you wouldn't lock down and force people to starve - you would lock down and provide income/food/capabilities for people to live regardless of their social/economic status. locking down isn't why poor people hurt, locking down and doing nothing to feed them does. It's like this pand…

At a certain point you run out of money. The US can print trillions of dollars in an emergency as a world reserve currency. Most countries cannot do this. The idea that India could just pay 1.4 billion people not to work for a year doesn't seem like a realistic proposal.

On what premise? This kind of talk presumes economies and governments don't serve the will of the people.

I mean, lets be real, if they don't serve the will of the people then the economy and government is short term and lockdowns were never the problem, but a symptom...

Re: India’s second wave

#194

Post by murukesh_s » Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 6:29 PM UTC

kashif wrote: post #125

FlyingSnake wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn’t the opposition parties, independent media, foreign watchdogs raise the alarm if that was the case (prior to the current strain)? This would’ve been a golden opportunity to discredit the ruling government.

Clearly you know nothing about the Indian media and how it is suppressed by the government. Indian media is NOT FREE to report.

Not a single day goes without seeing critical piece appearing in one of the listed sites:

https://www.ndtv.com https://scroll.in https://thewire.in

All of the foreign sites which are often very critical of the government like Aljazeera and BBC are also freely available. Note that scroll and wire are very left oriented and highly critical of the govt. So you need to balance the news with other medias. Even well established news papers like thehindu.com (leftist, run by leftist student leader N.Ram) and hindustantimes.com (run by opposition party) are also very popular and critical of the govt.

Re: India’s second wave

#195

Post by Kiraak » Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 6:30 PM UTC

Lock down is needed in India for lot of the Morons in our country who were taking things so lightly after the first wave we all deserve the lock down so we can learn a hard lesson, and stupid people die of covid19.

The second wave is all because of the central & State Govt and people's foolishness & ignorance. Unfortunately its because of our stupidity its the people of the lower income class have to suffer the most, the daily wage miggrants & people who are contract employees. If only all the organizations took all the right steps we wouldnt have been in this situation. The entire govt mechanism failed from top to the grassroot level, local muncipalities did not bother and neither the people.

I hope at least this time, we all learn the lesson.

Re: India’s second wave

#196

Post by supernovae » Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 6:31 PM UTC

maxerickson wrote: post #185

supernovae wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These numbers don't mean much on their own. Sure, if you live with mom and pop and you got laid off from a job and had a place to fall back onto, yippee If you live in pretty much any major city and you're the breadwinner then it doesn't cover rent/mortgage. We froze foreclosures, so there are estimated millions pending. Unemployment is still in pre-pandemic numbers - all though improving. I think our reliance on "jo…

I don't think we need a UBI that makes it easy to live in a city where ~$3000 month ($2400 + normal unemployment) won't cover expenses including housing.

2400 a month is rent here in Austin - and not even expensive rent. Without income, those rentals will foreclose/be evicted. Are you saying future pandemic responses should imply much of society simply deserves to be destitute?

Re: India’s second wave

#197

Post by CivBase » Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 6:33 PM UTC

supernovae wrote: post #184

MiSeRyDeee wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You realize that the stimulus check comes with a cost right? You almost sound like government can just give arbitrary money to citizens but isn't willing to do so.

You can absolutely give money to citizens. The government is FOR and BY the citizens. If the citizens agree to shutdown, they can agree to provide a means to continue society through the shutdown. The notion that we can't do this, is the one i have problems with because its absurd.

You can do this, but it has consequences. Money is not inherently valuable. It's a medium we use to store and exchange value inherent to scarce goods and services which people demand. To be a stable representation of value, money must also be scarce. This is a fundamental concept of economy, not something decided on and enforced by government.

The money a government gives to citizens must come from somewhere. They could liquidate assets owned by the government, borrow it from another government, take it from entities who are subject to the government's authority (taxes), or - what I assume you're getting at - just make more of it.

That last one isn't as simple as it sounds because it doesn't increase the cumulative value of the currency. Printing dollars is like dividing a pizza into more and more slices. It doesn't increase the amount of pizza. Inflation is a very real problem that has annihilated economies.

Re: India’s second wave

#198

Post by Mediterraneo10 » Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 6:35 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #172

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The virus may spread in whatever way it does, but what public-health measures are to be used to respond to it, have to have some kind of mandate from the population. Already in several countries the authorities have chosen not to impose tighter restrictions on gatherings because the population has shown that it would flaunt them. In that case, public-health officials have to change their messaging to e.g. encouraging…

If only there were some way to punish people who violate government mandated measures. Like, I don't know, maybe we could dress some people up with a uniform and badge, and give them the authority to stop violators and "fine" or "incarcerate" them. Some kind of "justice system" or something. I don't know, this is a new invention I'm coming up with on the fly. We had this problem in the USA, too. All these "mandates"…

One cannot always just tell police to enforce restrictions and that is that. Courts have the right to review laws and decrees, after all, and in some countries courts have found that the government exceeded its authority by imposing mask laws, social distancing, or business closures. Consequently, police could give you a fine, but that fine would be dismissed when you go to court. After a series of defeats in court, ruling parties may then ask police to stop enforcing the restrictions, because the embarrassment could help cost them the next election.

Again, COVID restrictions ultimately require some kind of mandate from the people. If a country’s government is unable to legally impose restrictions within its current constitutional order, and it is unable to gather sufficient votes to amend the constitution, then it will simply have to limit itself to public-health measures that the people will accept.

Re: India’s second wave

#199

Post by loonster » Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 6:35 PM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #188

supernovae wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I don't get is why we call ourselves democracies and speak as "lockdowns hurt poor people very badly" In a representative democracy, you wouldn't lock down and force people to starve - you would lock down and provide income/food/capabilities for people to live regardless of their social/economic status. locking down isn't why poor people hurt, locking down and doing nothing to feed them does. It's like this pand…

At a certain point you run out of money. The US can print trillions of dollars in an emergency as a world reserve currency. Most countries cannot do this. The idea that India could just pay 1.4 billion people not to work for a year doesn't seem like a realistic proposal.

You can't print a chicken. Money is only the intermediary.

Re: India’s second wave

#200

Post by oblio » Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 6:36 PM UTC

collyw wrote: post #96

esperent wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in a less developed part of the world - Vietnam - and the government and people have been incredibly successful in controlling the virus here. Aside from two short lockdowns of a couple of weeks, my life has barely been affected (except for the lack of tourists and the fact I can't travel outside the country). Local tourism and business seems to be booming. Meanwhile I hear all the stories from back home in Eu…

Governments can't control a virus. East Asia seems to have existing immunity or a genetic factor that means they aren't getting hit anywhere near as badly as other parts of the world.

???

You do know that East Asia has been hit several times by local epidemics (for example SARS) and that people have gotten used - based on previous government recommendations/mandates - to wear masks? That same culture used to people wearing masks is obviously helping now.

Governments can't completely control a virus, but they can definitely help curb its spread by taking effective measures. And one of that measures is effective communication, for example.