My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant • Hacker News Board

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#191

Post by rubashov » Thu, Jun 23, 2011, 3:46 AM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #97

tokenadult wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spouse of first-generation immigrant to the United States here. And back in the 1990s I used to be an immigration lawyer for a small law firm on the west coast. Yes, the personal story of Jose Antonio Vargas is rough on him personally, but a better basis for setting the policy of immigration in the United States would be the stories of the many people who patiently wait in line to be admitted to the United States thr…

The US does have a high rate of immigration, but on the other hand it's underpopulated compared to other developed countries. The biggest reason to loosen restrictions on immigration IMO is that without doing so the US is going to have difficulty with the payouts for social security and so forth as more baby boomers retire and there are fewer new entrants to the workforce. This is a medium-term problem (~20 years), l…

The USA is overpopulated. Most population centers are facing fresh water and also sewage infrastructure crises within the next 20 years. We are full up.

High productivity farm land is being destroyed by development at an alarming rate. The US is steadily becoming a food importer in category after category, where once we exported. This puts further pressure on our already abysmal trade deficit. This is also a national security issue.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#192

Post by gdilla » Thu, Jun 23, 2011, 3:50 AM UTC

geezer wrote: post #189

gdilla wrote: post #183

Go wait in line, Vargas. You ain't special. You think because we should feel sorry for you, that you deserve a greencard or legalization or whatever? Do you know the shit LEGAL immigrants have to go through to get and stay here? What makes you so damn special to skip the fucking line? I waited 7 fucking years for my greencard - all the while working and paying more taxes than you and any goddamn teabagger alive. I wa…

So you want Vargas to suffer due to unjust and unfair laws because you have been suffering from the same unjust laws. I guess misery loves company!

Did I say I wanted him to suffer? No. I told him he has to wait his turn and that he ain't special. I think he should get a greencard. But after my wife does. And after everyone who's waited years legally for one - especially if they're paying taxes like us.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#193

Post by rubashov » Thu, Jun 23, 2011, 3:54 AM UTC

davepage wrote: post #134

reddweb wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its simple. Do you implement the LAW ? or let law hijacked by emotions/plight? The legal aliens are idiots?. There are literally billions of people living below poverty line, who will sacrifice everything just to come to America - legally!!! Hardships, emotions and empathy has no place when you take into account 300 million citizens who are legally bound to support the system (tax, servcies, public shcools, hopsitals…

So, here we have a philosophical issue: tribe or meritocracy. Considering the historically horrible results with tribalism, meritocracy is best. Which means, open the borders. If some lazy spoiled Americans lose their jobs to better skilled immigrants, all the better. That's what this country is about.

> horrible results with tribalism, meritocracy is best.

May I attempt to translate?: Throw my weaker countrymen under the bus. I have no human loyalties to those born in my nation who share my culture. Their welfare is of no consequence compared to potentially profitable foreigners.

I think your "tribalism vs meritocracy" line does get to the heart of the matter. Except I would substitute the term "nationalism" for tribalism. And the story of the 19th and 20th century is the absolute failure of systems of government not oriented around nationalism, and tribe. All over the world empires and larger nations repeatedly broke up into their tribal elements. This is inevitable human nature and fighting it is just stupid. This project of inviting the entire world into the borders of the USA will end in civil war eventually. Enoch Powell was right. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/3643823/Enoch-Powells-Riv...

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#194

Post by freshfunk » Thu, Jun 23, 2011, 4:04 AM UTC

nick-dap wrote: post #51

I'm in the same boat. It's been difficult. I cannot express how grateful I am to Jose Vargas for writing this story. I was brought here as a kid 13 years ago. I'm 24 now. I also graduated from a "top" university -- like that matters. I guess my parents weren't smart enough to get a fake social security card for me back then, I wish they were. I've also been fighting for the Dream Act for what feels like an eternity.…

The story was a moving one and I hope Vargas gets to stay.

With that said, I think illegal immigration creates all kinds of societal problems and is unfair to legal immigrants.

The problem it creates is that there's enormous stress on those that are illegal. They live in the shadows and can be taken advantage of. My own personal experience was driving in LA and being rear-ended by someone who then fled the scene (most likely illegal). They work for less than minimum wage and don't cooperate with law enforcement for fear of deportation.

I'm a child of legal immigrants so I'm naturally biased. There is a legal system and many people every year try to go through that system like my parents did. I see illegal immigrants as "cutting in line" and I see nothing fair about it.

But I'm also human. People like Vargas had no choice (sent here as a kid) and has made a life here. I also sympathize those that flee poverty, crime and even wanting a brighter future. I also grew up in LA and know that many illegal immigrants live decent lives.. heck some of my friends are probably undocumented.

But completely opening the borders is not feasible. Creating systems that encourage illegal immigration only make the problem worse (and exacerbate the problems mentioned above).

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#195

Post by emiranda » Thu, Jun 23, 2011, 4:05 AM UTC

Video about the story: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJH1IKqF8PA

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#196

Post by rubashov » Thu, Jun 23, 2011, 4:12 AM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #151

lupatus wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those downvoting this comment, why? Do you disagree that nations are basically large families? Am I in the wrong to want to hypothetically seek out my biological family or nation of origin? Or, do you disagree with my viewpoint and want me to shut up?

Did not downvote, but absolutely disagree. Ethnic nationalism has a bad track record, to put it mildly.

> Ethnic nationalism has a bad track record

Pre 1940s Europe is a transnational jumble of overlapping ethnic groups. Result: war after war after war.

Post 40s and 50s after millions of people relocate to their linguistic and ethnic homelands and coalesce into new nations carved out of empires: lasting peace. Last major war was in former Yugoslavia, which failed to get with the ethnic nationalist program.

Hell, even Belgium is falling apart now. You are dead wrong on this. Ethnic nationalism is the only system that works, long term.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#197

Post by freshfunk » Thu, Jun 23, 2011, 4:14 AM UTC

dennisgorelik wrote: post #152

fastfinner wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May I learn the reason of the down-vote? I am answering to the issue of the fairness of citizenship-by-birth raised in the parent. I draw a distinction between entrenched inequality in world order and the more amenable inequalities.

You are NOT answering the issue of fairness of citizenship-by-birth. You are just claiming that it's ok to have discrimination by contry of birth. Well, unfair discrimination is NOT OK. That's why you are getting downvoted. I personally did not downvote you. Even though I strongly disagree - at least you are trying to understand.

You're framing the argument in a way that makes your position stronger and his weaker. But, in your framing, I think you miss some basic points.

For me, it comes down to what he said here: >Meanwhile, though, I have no sympathy for people who are trying to shortcut the established processes. The "hope for a better life" just doesn't justify bypassing all the other people that wait in line.

The thing is that everyone else who is in the line is also hoping for a better life. So what justifies someone cutting?

In this specific case, he had no choice in the matter (put on a plane as a kid) so I think he should be allowed to stay. But every other adult is, in my opinion, cutting in line.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#198

Post by freshfunk » Thu, Jun 23, 2011, 4:17 AM UTC

trustfundbaby wrote: post #6

Properly formatted link http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/26/magazine/my-life-as-an-und... The guy came out as gay but wouldn't let people know he wasn't a citizen ... that's deep.

I'd keep in mind that this is the bay area which tends to be pretty gay friendly.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#199

Post by freshfunk » Thu, Jun 23, 2011, 4:18 AM UTC

phillmv wrote: post #10

Shenglong wrote: post #3

Even if I weren't open to letting educated members of society earn a legal green card, I think this would've changed my mind. The inability to obtain US citizenship even though I was attending a consecutively #1 rated program on the continent, at one of the best schools in the country really dimmed my own hopes. I remember wanting to apply for an internship at MIT Lincoln labs for anti-ballistic missile defense, and…

Have you tried Canada? We're kind of like the US, but better.

Better at rioting due to hockey losses! ;D

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#200

Post by qohen » Thu, Jun 23, 2011, 4:19 AM UTC

coryl wrote: post #182

haberman wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is living in limbo for a decade, with literally no single piece of paper identifying you as a human being is "cutting in line?" Because other kids who might have liked to live in the US and go to a top university didn't get to. You got what you wanted faster because your family broke the law. I still believe that children who are brought here illegally should get a lot more leniency because they weren't respons…

Because other kids who might have liked to live in the US and go to a top university didn't get to. And some are lucky enough to simply be born in the US, and squander those opportunities anyway. I think its a bit funny to be citing "the law" as a grounds for which to argue this. It really has to go above and beyond what current laws are, into a moral and philosophical discussion of how people should treat each other…

> I would love if everyone could look up the Rawlsian "Veil of Ignorance"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veil_of_ignorance