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OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana

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Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana

#191

Post by gnfargbl »

ev1 wrote: post #160
gnfargbl wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IP transit costs something like $350-$700/mo for a Gbit. Amazon are certainly getting better rates, so even with equipment costs I doubt they're spending much more than $0.005/GiB. Their pricing starts at $0.15/GiB. (Not to single out AWS, the other big providers are much the same.)

I'm below $100/1Gbps 95% with more than one provider as a small player

That's sounds like a great deal: you're paying less than half of Hurricane's advertised minimum price. And I had understood HE were a mid/low price carrier.

Can I ask, are you in a data center? US or Europe?

Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana

#192

Post by mdaniel »

mgr86 wrote: post #71

Naive aside, but why would I want to use ElasticSearch or OpenSearch over Solr? Are ES and Solr not both based on Lucene?

The real vendor lock-in for ES (and now AWS OS) is the REST query API; if Solr implemented ES's API, I bet $1 a lot more people would have moved or at least considered moving over

IIRC Solr also has some weird stuff about schemaless indices, whereas ES took the very Mongo-y approach of "yeah, just throw content at the index, don't worry about it" but then separately the approach of "I am angry with your new conflicting field in that document" and throws an exception; so you don't have to worry about the schema right up until you do have to worry about it

Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana

#194

Post by mekster »

Are people actually required to use ELK? What are your use cases?

The interface is completely cluttered and it takes loads of resource and it feels like it's waiting to be replaced with lighter and more focused products.

Graylog (though it uses Elasticsearch internally) does a decent job at log handling and creating all the visual items out of logs and Grafana/Loki can do quite good at it as well with a very small memory footprint.

Besides, most of the "business intelligences" aren't actionable but just some visual arts you wouldn't need but to stare at when you're bored.

Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana

#195

Post by unreal37 »

ForHackernews wrote: post #165
mixedCase wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoting the comment you're replying to: > If OpenSearch is truely open then in theory you can find another provider Those are the key words. With an open source solution someone else can offer a turn-key solution that benefits from economies of scale.

Uh...can they? Who's going to benefit from more "economies of scale" than Amazon, Alibaba?

Can Azure offer an OpenSearch service? Probably.

So the idea is you can move from AWS to Azure if you wanted to with open source services underneath.

Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana

#196

Post by mdaniel »

mekster wrote: post #194

Are people actually required to use ELK? What are your use cases? The interface is completely cluttered and it takes loads of resource and it feels like it's waiting to be replaced with lighter and more focused products. Graylog (though it uses Elasticsearch internally) does a decent job at log handling and creating all the visual items out of logs and Grafana/Loki can do quite good at it as well with a very small me…

I recently learned that Graylog changed their license and it's now one of those vanity licenses: https://github.com/Graylog2/graylog2-server/blob/master/LICE...

Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana

#197

Post by stefan_ »

VectorLock wrote: post #146
toast0 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's tons of businesses that are happy to charge less for bandwidth; so it's clear Amazon (and some of the other high tier cloud services) are overcharging on this maybe by a factor of 10, although since transit bits are not all equal, someone with more detail could make a case that the overcharging is less. It's easyish to compete on bandwidth costs, but Amazon has a lot of other features many people want; it's h…

This is like going to a fancy restaurant and being upset that they charge so much for a steak when you can get beef at the supermarket for much less.

If you ask the fancy restaurant to cater a steak dinner for 1000 people they will charge you a lot closer to supermarket beef.

The point is that if you charge absurd prices for what has basically no marginal cost your pricing model is broken and 1) you are excluding customers that are particularly sensitive to this price or 2) you are liable to undercharge other customers that primarily use other services for which you are not charging what it costs you to provide.

For AWS, given the generally inflated prices, it's probably a lot more of 1) than 2).

Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana

#199

Post by ncann »

TechBro8615 wrote: post #70
prepend wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In fact, Amazon contributes very little to open source in general, considering how much they take from it I don’t think this is a fact. Amazon seems to contribute pretty significantly according to the pages [0,1] they put out that describes their contributions. Not to mention their membership in OSS foundations like Linux Foundation. [2] You have the caveat about in relation to benefit they gain, but that’s pretty…

The absolute claim, aside from being at home in a rant on HN, comes from a cursory glance at https://github.com/amzn , weighted by contributors and popularity, and compared to companies of similar size. Google, Microsoft and Facebook all build and maintain multiple open source projects that are hugely popular with people who use them outside of the company sandboxes. For example, people benefit from React without Fac…

When I think of Google I think of Go, Angular, protobuf, Bazel, Dart, Flutter, Android, Chromium, Kubernetes, Tensorflow, etc.

When I think of MS I think of C#, TypeScript, VSCode, .NET

When I think of Facebook I think of React, Flux, Jest, PyTorch, GraphQL, Haxl

When I think of Apple I think of Swift, WebKit

When I think of Amazon...I can't really think of anything

Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana

#200

Post by soenkeliebau »

stefan_ wrote: post #185
cle wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the most important point, IMO. Amazon's value add is not the software itself, it's the operation of the software. That includes a LOT of stuff, not just making sure it's running. It's security modeling and patching, compliance, DDOS protection, etc. Amazon's product is an army of ops engineers working 24/7 to keep your stuff secure and online. With that in mind, their behavior here makes a lot more sense, and…

You can rent a car but nobody would suggest the car manufacturer be paid nothing for the privilege just cause the rental company cracked car maintenance and how to fill the tank. The AWS "value add" is only value add in the context of being locked into AWS in the first place.

I'm not sure if I like your comparison to be honest.. not only is it not _just_ maintenance and filling the tank, if we stick with your picture, there is also things like buying the car, paying for it when no one uses it, insuring the car, repairing the car, general logistics of moving it around when someone has a one way rental, etc. - basically making it convenient for consumers to rent a car.

Looking at what "as a service" providers of open source software do though, that is taking it a step further, since they wrap the software in a layer that _smoothes_ out changes for the user. Going back to the rental company that would equate to the car manufacturer deciding the indicator needs to be on the right side of the steering wheel now and the rental company installing an adaptor so that it remains on the left for you, to keep the look and feel for the user the same.

Not a perfect comparison, but they never are :)

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